Captain America out of character in AvX?

[Lascoden]

Cap really has been fighting longer. Sorry man, but those are the facts regarding this work of fiction.

Cap has been fighting since he was 18-25, for 4 years in WWII. He was unfrozen, in Marvel time, at around 1996-7. Scott has been fighting since he was 16-18, younger if you count the initial attack by the Shi'Ar. He is now roughly 30-40's. I'm not saying Cap has less experience. What I am saying is that he hasn't been fighting "much longer than Scott could even imagine"

[Nomads1]

Cap really has been fighting longer. Sorry man, but those are the facts regarding this work of fiction.

I may disagree with that. Cyclops first appeared fighting Magneto more or less at the same time Cap returned to the World of the living. Prior to that, Cap had what, 4 or 5 years fighting WWII. Now, before Cyke appeared to the world, he was already being trained by Xavier for quite some time, and he does have the added experience of raising and teaching Cable in an apocaliptic future for more then a decade. So, experience-wise, I'd say they are quite even. If anything, I'd say that, over the last couple of years, Scott has actually learned to think more like a war General, than Cap, who still thinks too much like a field leader. In leadership skills, I'd say both are pretty much even, however, I have this ugly feeling that Cyclops will draw the shorter side of the stick in this one.

Peace

[Hulk_Is]

uh...yeah, he does. his own son warned him that if the avengers got to her, the earth would be destroyed. not that difficult to understand why cyclops would not hand her over to them with that information.

Cable doesn't know what he's talking about. His brain's been ravaged by the techno-virus. In between him attacking Avengers and Cyclops doing the same I'm not sure mutants are going to allowed back on the planet when (if) things settle down.

[AcesX1X]

Cable doesn't know what he's talking about. His brain's been ravaged by the techno-virus. In between him attacking Avengers and Cyclops doing the same I'm not sure mutants are going to allowed back on the planet when (if) things settle down.

whether or not cable's right isn't the point. cyclops trusts him and believe it or not, he doesn't want the earth to perish.

[Hulk_Is]

One thing you're forgetting: Cap does not want Hope and the Phoenix to join under any circumstances. And the government has been anything but kind to the mutants. They have no reason to trust them. And their plans are in direct opposition to each other. And yes, when your negotiations are "give me want I want, or I'll take it" that's schoolyard bully, even if you ask nicely.

It isn't, especially given the circumstances. If you believe that having this little girl will stave off the destruction of your entire planet, than that is the rout you will take. It's not like Cap and the gov are trying to herd the entire mutant race into some quarantine. It just takes a simple cooperation on Cykes' part, but instead he goes mad on his superiors. Cap said that they could have a discussion after he has taken the girl. Apparently, Cyclops has forgotten how to speak and has now resorted to his baser (animalistic) instincts. Who else (mutant) does that remind you of?

[Nomads1]

It isn't, especially given the circumstances. If you believe that having this little girl will stave off the destruction of your entire planet, than that is the rout you will take. It's not like Cap and the gov are trying to herd the entire mutant race into some quarantine. It just takes a simple cooperation on Cykes' part, but instead he goes mad on his superiors. Cap said that they could have a discussion after he has taken the girl. Apparently, Cyclops has forgotten how to speak and has now resorted to his baser (animalistic) instincts. Who else (mutant) does that remind you of?

Now you're just trying to get a rise out of people.

Peace

[Hulk_Is]

whether or not cable's right isn't the point. cyclops trusts him and believe it or not, he doesn't want the earth to perish.

Nonetheless, he's acting like a mad man to get his point across.

[Lascoden]

It isn't, especially given the circumstances. If you believe that having this little girl will stave off the destruction of your entire planet, than that is the rout you will take. It's not like Cap and the gov are trying to herd the entire mutant race into some quarantine. It just takes a simple cooperation on Cykes' part, but instead he goes mad on his superiors. Cap said that they could have a discussion after he has taken the girl. Apparently, Cyclops has forgotten how to speak and has now resorted to his baser (animalistic) instincts. Who else (mutant) does that remind you of?

His good intentions don't change what he did. If killing her is the only option, then that would still be murder, no matter how justified. Cap may be right, but that doesn't change what he did.

And this is the big issue: There are no possible negotiations in this situation. Cyke wants Hope and the PF to join. Cap doesn't. There is no reconciling the two positions. Both believe they are doing what's best for the survival of the planet, and refuse to change their mind. Therefore, there is no reason for Scott to give Hope over to Cap, since he believes that it will endanger the world. Not just mutants, the entire Earth.

Edit Also: the whole quarantine thing? The government has been doing that for years now. Bad argument.

[Hulk_Is]

Now you're just trying to get a rise out of people.

Peace

Cyclops throws government issued medals into the ocean.

[Hulk_Is]

His good intentions don't change what he did. If killing her is the only option, then that would still be murder, no matter how justified. Cap may be right, but that doesn't change what he did.

And this is the big issue: There are no possible negotiations in this situation. Cyke wants Hope and the PF to join. Cap doesn't. There is no reconciling the two positions. Both believe they are doing what's best for the survival of the planet, and refuse to change their mind. Therefore, there is no reason for Scott to give Hope over to Cap, since he believes that it will endanger the world. Not just mutants, the entire Earth.

Edit Also: the whole quarantine thing? The government has been doing that for years now. Bad argument.

Considering how many mutants that have exsisted for the last few years and Cyclops disregard for basic orders, Cap's under no obligation to believe that the joining of the Phoenix and Hope will result in the flourishing of Homo-superior. That plan could backfire and then eveyones doomed. Finally, remember it was a mutant who started all of this.

[Viteh]

Cable doesn't know what he's talking about. His brain's been ravaged by the techno-virus. In between him attacking Avengers and Cyclops doing the same I'm not sure mutants are going to allowed back on the planet when (if) things settle down.

Cable saw what happened, same with Blaquesmith.

It isn't, especially given the circumstances. If you believe that having this little girl will stave off the destruction of your entire planet, than that is the rout you will take. It's not like Cap and the gov are trying to herd the entire mutant race into some quarantine. It just takes a simple cooperation on Cykes' part, but instead he goes mad on his superiors. Cap said that they could have a discussion after he has taken the girl. Apparently, Cyclops has forgotten how to speak and has now resorted to his baser (animalistic) instincts. Who else (mutant) does that remind you of?

Again, based on what Cable saw in the future, Cyclops's actions are for the protection of the planet. If the Avengers take Hope, then it's over for everyone. So based on your own logic, Cyclops is allowed to do anything really.

[Lascoden]

Considering how many mutants that have exsisted for the last few years and Cyclops disregard for basic orders, Cap's under no obligation to believe that the joining of the Phoenix and Hope will result in the flourishing of Homo-superior. That plan could backfire and then eveyones doomed. Finally, remember it was a mutant who started all of this.

First, Cap can't order Scott around, even if Utopia isn't a separate nation. You could say that he has no obligation to. Second, if Cap's plan fails, guess what happens: Everybody dies. So, that's a mutual thing. And they do have evidence, since the PF has saved the Earth on multiple occasions. And really, considering other options is his obligation. Unilateral action is almost always a terrible thing. Third, in regards to Wanda: According to Cap, Wanda is an Avenger first.

[Hulk_Is]

Cable saw what happened, same with Blaquesmith.



Again, based on what Cable saw in the future, Cyclops's actions are for the protection of the planet. If the Avengers take Hope, then it's over for everyone. So based on your own logic, Cyclops is allowed to do anything really.

1) Blaquesmith is evil. 2) Cable. Like father. 3) Cyclops. Like son.

This situation must be taken seriously. Like a cancer. Time is running out. The crazies may very well have doomed Earth.

[Hulk_Is]

First, Cap can't order Scott around, even if Utopia isn't a separate nation. You could say that he has no obligation to. Second, if Cap's plan fails, guess what happens: Everybody dies. So, that's a mutual thing. And they do have evidence, since the PF has saved the Earth on multiple occasions. And really, considering other options is his obligation. Unilateral action is almost always a terrible thing. Third, in regards to Wanda: According to Cap, Wanda is an Avenger first.

The Avengers have more at their disposal than do the mutants at this stage to best tackle the threat of a Phoenix disaster. Cyclops could have easily been a part of this saving effort, but he instead decided to exacerbate the situation by firing first. Does the man not know any other skills on how to diffuse a situation? At one time maybe.

We'll see what Cap thinks about Wanda after she turns the television off.

[Lascoden]

The Avengers have more at their disposal than do the mutants at this stage to best tackle the threat of a Phoenix disaster. Cyclops could have easily been a part of this saving effort, but he instead decided to exacerbate the situation by firing first. Does the man not know any other skills on how to diffuse a situation? At one time maybe.

We'll see what Cap thinks about Wanda after she turns the television off.

Such as, what exactly? They can barely hold off Galactus. They usually have to threaten him or negotiate. The PF can't be reasoned with, not without a host. And, what is Scott's plan? Get the Phoenix a host. And what you don't seem to be getting is that Scott being a part of the government's, or Cap's, plan to deal with the PF is pointless. Their goals are complete opposites, and both believe what they are doing is the right thing to will save the world. They would never be able to negotiate, or work together.