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  1. #1
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Default Catalyst for past ten years of Avengers (and greater MU) stories: the DC Universe?

    The history of the Avengers in comics for the past ten years (and by extension, much of the Marvel Universe in general) has spun largely out of AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED and HOUSE OF M. The events from these two stories led into CIVIL WAR, which in turn spawned its own tributary subplots and developments.

    The premise of DISASSEMBLED/HOUSE OF M was the Scarlet Witch losing control of herself and her magic going wild, mostly in attempts to resurrect her slain children. The catalyst of this storyline, however, was the encounter between the Avengers and the Justice League of the DC Universe in AVENGERS/JLA. It was that encounter with the powerful chaos magic of the DCU and the Gamemaster's revelation of the fate of her children that led to Wanda's subsequent breakdown.

    It seems an interesting and ironic point that the past ten years of AVENGERS and Marvel Universe storylines might have their narrative root in the Avengers' encounter with the DC Universe.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    faze (v.): to cause to be disturbed or disconcerted; to stun

    phase (n.):
    a stage in a process of change or development

    Get it right, people.

  2. #2
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The history of the Avengers in comics for the past ten years (and by extension, much of the Marvel Universe in general) has spun largely out of AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED and HOUSE OF M. The events from these two stories led into CIVIL WAR, which in turn spawned its own tributary subplots and developments.

    The premise of DISASSEMBLED/HOUSE OF M was the Scarlet Witch losing control of herself and her magic going wild, mostly in attempts to resurrect her slain children. The catalyst of this storyline, however, was the encounter between the Avengers and the Justice League of the DC Universe in AVENGERS/JLA. It was that encounter with the powerful chaos magic of the DCU and the Gamemaster's revelation of the fate of her children that led to Wanda's subsequent breakdown.

    It seems an interesting and ironic point that the past ten years of AVENGERS and Marvel Universe storylines might have their narrative root in the Avengers' encounter with the DC Universe.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I don't think you can necessarily say the catalyst for Disassembled was really JLA/Avengers. I'm not sure Marvel has even acknowledged the event as canon to be honest.

  3. #3
    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The history of the Avengers in comics for the past ten years (and by extension, much of the Marvel Universe in general) has spun largely out of AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED and HOUSE OF M. The events from these two stories led into CIVIL WAR, which in turn spawned its own tributary subplots and developments.

    The premise of DISASSEMBLED/HOUSE OF M was the Scarlet Witch losing control of herself and her magic going wild, mostly in attempts to resurrect her slain children. The catalyst of this storyline, however, was the encounter between the Avengers and the Justice League of the DC Universe in AVENGERS/JLA. It was that encounter with the powerful chaos magic of the DCU and the Gamemaster's revelation of the fate of her children that led to Wanda's subsequent breakdown.

    It seems an interesting and ironic point that the past ten years of AVENGERS and Marvel Universe storylines might have their narrative root in the Avengers' encounter with the DC Universe.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I think this is really a stretch, especially since marvel doesn't acknowledge that story as Canon


  4. #4
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I don't think you can necessarily say the catalyst for Disassembled was really JLA/Avengers. I'm not sure Marvel has even acknowledged the event as canon to be honest.
    This.

    I'm fairly positive that it was never excepted as a cannon. Especially since it was prominently written by a DC writer.

  5. #5
    Avengers Assemble! Telos's Avatar
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    Just because Marvel's official handbooks and editors don't acknowledge it as canon doesn't mean you can't accept it yourself. There's nothing in the comics themselves to suggest it's non-canon, and it slots in very nicely with Busiek's Avengers run. If you like it (and anyone with decent taste should), why not just pretend it's in-continuity?

    I do the same thing with Hank Pym's appearance Dwayne McDuffie's Beyond. Hank had a really prominent role in it, but according to Brevoort he was already replaced by a Skrull at that stage. However, this isn't stated in the comics, so as far as I'm concerned, Hank was abducted and replaced sometime later.

    That's one of my favourite things about being a comic book fan - you can (sort of) build your own continuity by ignoring things you don't like, placing emphasis on things you do and filling in plot holes with your own ideas. Obviously writers shouldn't do this (unfortunately they often do ) but it's great fun as a fan.
    Last edited by Telos; 05-07-2012 at 03:46 AM.

  6. #6
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    It's an interesting connection, but Wanda had been written as at least partially nuts for a long time before JLA/Avengers. John Byrne did what John Byrne always does and made her a total nutcase, and that pretty much became an accepted part of her personality.

    He also ruined the Vision for an entire generation, but that's just the icing on the cake, I suppose.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Corey W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaric Rivad View Post
    It's an interesting connection, but Wanda had been written as at least partially nuts for a long time before JLA/Avengers. John Byrne did what John Byrne always does and made her a total nutcase, and that pretty much became an accepted part of her personality.

    He also ruined the Vision for an entire generation, but that's just the icing on the cake, I suppose.
    Vision is like humpty dumpty. I am not sure we will ever get him put back together again. I love Byrne, but I really wish that story had been retconned at some point.

    Telos has a good point on continuity. The general rule ought to be that if nothing in the story wouldn't work if it was canon then fans are free to assume it is until something contradicts it.

    With JLA/Avengers, I have always assumed that it was in continuity but the characters have forgotten it (which often happens with such events).

  8. #8
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telos View Post
    Just because Marvel's official handbooks and editors don't acknowledge it as canon doesn't mean you can't accept it yourself. There's nothing in the comics themselves to suggest it's non-canon, and it slots in very nicely with Busiek's Avengers run. If you like it (and anyone with decent taste should), why not just pretend it's in-continuity?

    I do the same thing with Hank Pym's appearance Dwayne McDuffie's Beyond. Hank had a really prominent role in it, but according to Brevoort he was already replaced by a Skrull at that stage. However, this isn't stated in the comics, so as far as I'm concerned, Hank was abducted and replaced sometime later.
    hate to break it to you but you can tell it's the skrull by how Hank and Firebird hook up. Janet's behavior in the book lines up perfectly with their breakup in London. then went there as a couple and left despising each other.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  9. #9
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    This.

    I'm fairly positive that it was never excepted as a cannon. Especially since it was prominently written by a DC writer.
    I wouldn't characterize Kurt Busiek as a DC writer (as in someone who writes exclusively for DC Comics). Busiek has written for both companies and at the time he wrote AVENGERS/JLA, he had just come off an acclaimed AVENGERS run. Busiek has written more AVENGERS than he has JUSTICE LEAGUE.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    faze (v.): to cause to be disturbed or disconcerted; to stun

    phase (n.):
    a stage in a process of change or development

    Get it right, people.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I wouldn't characterize Kurt Busiek as a DC writer (as in someone who writes exclusively for DC Comics). Busiek has written for both companies and at the time he wrote AVENGERS/JLA, he had just come off an acclaimed AVENGERS run. Busiek has written more AVENGERS than he has JUSTICE LEAGUE.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    WAAAAY more. Up until he came to Avengers/JLA, Busiek's resume had been a half a dozen fill-in issues, including one of the last JLA/JSA team-ups, and annual featuring mostly the JL Detroit. After Avengers/JLA he wrote a (IMHO) great eight issue arc for JLA.

    Peace

  11. #11
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    This.

    I'm fairly positive that it was never excepted as a cannon. Especially since it was prominently written by a DC writer.
    How, exactly, is Busiek a "DC writer" when he's created a ton of material for Marvel, including the Thunderbolts which is still running to this day?
    Ever read his hefty Avengers run? Avengers Forever? Marvels?
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

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  12. #12
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    you've done it now! you've said his name more than 3 times. you only have 24 hours before he crawls out of your computer screen/kills you.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Since we didn't use his full name, with the "Bloody" prefix (see how I'm being careful here, as to not use both the words in sequence?), I think we'll be fine.

    Peace

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