Movie Avengers vs. Movie X-Men

[Cthulhu_of_R'yleh]

if wally trips and falls down while charging at Logan, Logan can make a move from there. The odds of Logan laying a claw on Wally is low, but it is never 0% unless its impossible for the other person to lose. Maybe logans odds would be 1-3 % but not 0.

Even if he tripped and fell, he'd be up and moving again so fast Logan would barely notice it. That literally makes no sense at all.

[Syrile Demonthyst]

Did Iron Man show significantly faster reflexes than Jean? How fast can his blasts travel? Isn't there a distance gap between them? In the time it takes for him to think, raise his arm, aim his hand at Jean's face, and then for the blast to cross the distance and actually reach her, why couldn't Jean have already thought "TK forcefield"? She blocked Cyclop's blast at her when he was sneaking up behind her. Don't see why she couldn't do the same here.

If she has a good speed feat or so she may do decent against Tony. Such as stopping shots after they are fired..
However, as for his speed feats he has things like dodging rockets, dodging projectiles while flying at a charge towards the beings firing them, zipping through closed in areas at high speeds, etc.

As for the question about "how fast does his blasts travel".. This question really gets old to be honest. One could say "there is no shown speed so it means nothing". However that is totally not true. Just because something is not a bullet does not mean it is slow.

For example, normal soldiers cannot dodge them or react to them. We can see they move extremely fast actually. For example, lets break down how fast they would have to move to do what they do. Tony was consistently hitting Thor with them. However Thor was blocking the enemies energy beams with his hammer. To further give an example of how fast they must be moving, the energy beams from the enemy were so fast that Nick Fury was standing unable to react, but yet Hawkeye could react. Captain America was able to react much easier than Hawkeye was though.
It showed a scale of speed through the characters.

In general, the slowest that a projectile is normally shown to be is too much for a normal (trained) soldier to react to. So, a person without explicit speed feats would not have time to react to them.

However, if she actually reacts to shots after they are fired, that does give her a speed feat worth talking about.

[MorphyVSFischer]

Explain the downfall with adding someone more powerful to a team thats going to lose that can help them out more ? Would you rather read an Avengers vs X-men comic book where the X-men go down easy or would you atleast want some competition even though Avengers team is going to win, Make things more interesting? get it ?

I like to even things out. I dont just post in threads ok this guy or this team wins. I use my imagination and try to see the picture for the other side and lay out a story even though I already know who is going to win.

This forum isn't about what you want to read its about finding out who wins. Making the fight even is all well and good except that's not what's happening here because they still lose. It's still not a debate. The fact the avengers might take 2 minutes to win instead of one isn't more interesting

[Cthulhu_of_R'yleh]

Phoenix unable to harm the people ? Ok this isnt going anywhere, apparently people just want to be difficult and turn this into a competition isntead of a understanding. nobody jumped on the OP for adding jean to the team saying she cant harm anyone. OH but Phoenix sure as hell cant.

Jean couldn't either. But you're arguing Phoenix. So we are responding in kind.

[Deadman25]

So your argument is literally plot contrivance? The thing that is against the rules of this forum?
Also yes some fights are zero percent. I can think of even more clear cut examples. Does batman have a one percent chance against Thanos?

without a ton of prep batman would have 0 chance. cause there is nothing Batman can do to Harm Thanos. Logan can still harm Flash, the odds of that are just completely low. but it can still happen.

[K Von Doom]

Why would u think their chance of winning would be 0 ? if you really believe thats their chance of wining then why even post in the thread and report it as spite ? They have a telepath and someone who can do some serious damage with their eyes. Even though they are going to lose they still have a % chance of winning even though the Avengers chance is much higher

What you're saying is a contradiction though. You say X-Men are going to lose via your quote below.

Il repeat one last time I never said X-men win. They just have a better chance with her as Phoenix.

So, the X-Men won't win. The X-Men WILL NOT win BUT they have a chance of winning? That makes no sense. If they have a chance of winning, you must be thinking of some scenario where it's possible for them to KO all of the Avengers.

Having Phoenix may increase casualties on the other side but it does not increase their chance of KO'ing the Avengers that matter (Hulk, Thor and Ironman), it merely delays losing. Being annihilated slower doesn't mean their chances of winning increased.

[Syrile Demonthyst]

Phoenix unable to harm the people ? Ok this isnt going anywhere, apparently people just want to be difficult and turn this into a competition isntead of a understanding. nobody jumped on the OP for adding jean to the team saying she cant harm anyone. OH but Phoenix sure as hell cant.

Feats of Phoenix harming someone as durable as Thor or Hulk?

[Deadman25]

Jean couldn't either. But you're arguing Phoenix. So we are responding in kind.

Explain how Phoenix couldnt Harm the Avengers ? did you even see X2 and X3 ? she could banish people and has incredible control over objects and has bullet timing feats. I dont know why thats so hard to accept.

[Cthulhu_of_R'yleh]

without a ton of prep batman would have 0 chance. cause there is nothing Batman can do to Harm Thanos. Logan can still harm Flash, the odds of that are just completely low. but it can still happen.

In a match with onesided prep, Batman has a small chance at not getting obilterated. He's not going to win. So that doesn't make any sense either. And the Flash moves so fast, even if he tripped Logan wouldn't hit him. I don't see the point you're trying to make.

[Deadman25]

Feats of Phoenix harming someone as durable as Thor or Hulk?

Read back at my posts last few pages I never said she would harm them. the argument was towards Ironman. I made my point and Cbher provided a good point as well towards starl and phoenix. I have no idea why this has to be so difficult for you guys.

[Syrile Demonthyst]

We are into the territory of arguing that PIS will conveniently make Flash fall down, and then slowly (As in trillions of years) rise up into Logan's blades.. because they are shiny like a sword held by Deathstroke.

[MorphyVSFischer]

without a ton of prep batman would have 0 chance. cause there is nothing Batman can do to Harm Thanos. Logan can still harm Flash, the odds of that are just completely low. but it can still happen.

So in direct contradiction to your last statement there are some fights that are zero percent?
I also like the fact you ignore the point I brought up that the plot convenience you came up with is not how this forums rules work

[Deadman25]

In a match with onesided prep, Batman has a small chance at not getting obilterated. He's not going to win. So that doesn't make any sense either. And the Flash moves so fast, even if he tripped Logan wouldn't hit him. I don't see the point you're trying to make.

With batman having prep % chance goes up but he might not win. My point is % chance goes up even losing. makes things more interesting. Every bit helps in a fight.

[Syrile Demonthyst]

Read back at my posts last few pages I never said she would harm them. the argument was towards Ironman. I made my point and Cbher provided a good point as well towards starl and phoenix. I have no idea why this has to be so difficult for you guys.

So, if there is absolutely no chance she could harm two of the characters on the opposing side, how does her presence increase the chance of their victory at all?
0% Chance of Damage is still 0% Chance of Damage.

We could put The X-Men against The Hulk or Thor solo and they would lose.

[Cthulhu_of_R'yleh]

Explain how Phoenix couldnt Harm the Avengers ? did you even see X2 and X3 ? she could banish people and has incredible control over objects and has bullet timing feats. I dont know why thats so hard to accept.

Oh god. I've said time and time again. She was shown to be nowhere near strong enough to harm the Hulk, Thor or Iron Man. Nor was she shown to be fast enough. Yes, I saw X2 and X3 (she basically had no feats in X2 other than 'dying'), which is why I listed all the relevant feats for the Phoenix a page or two back.