Movie Avengers+Loki VS Cartoon JLA

[WaveHeater]

Considering Flash, even in the cartoon is epically faster then loki and Loki seemed to need to physically touch people to mind control them I doubt he'd get the opportunity to lay a hand on Flash

Loki doenst need to touch people to control them.

-He manipulated the entire Big 4 from his prison cell all while holding a conversation with Black Widow.

-He controlled the Destroyer on Earth while he was lightyears away on Asgard.

[Slade]

Loki doenst need to touch people to control them.

-He manipulated the entire Big 4 from his prison cell all while holding a conversation with Black Widow.

-He controlled the Destroyer on Earth while he was lightyears away on Asgard.

Loki gets blitzed by Flash. End of story. He didn't mind control anybody in the helicarrier, just mild emotion manipulation. That's not stopping a bloodlusted Flash.

Thor gets blitzed by Superman who is so much faster.

[Forgotten Entity]

He didn't mind control anybody in the helicarrier, just mild emotion manipulation.

And even then, wasn't that only because he had the spear?

At least to me it seemed to be implied his spear was behind it.

[WaveHeater]

Loki gets blitzed by Flash. End of story. He didn't mind control anybody in the helicarrier, just mild emotion manipulation. That's not stopping a bloodlusted Flash.

Thor gets blitzed by Superman who is so much faster.

Flash is an earthbound superhero who cant touch a guy who is a phantom projection most of the time.

Loki could literally conduct the battle from a throne an Asgard lightyears away, while the Jl's are chasing phantom images and tearing each other apart.


"Mild emotion manipulation???" If making Hulk kill Widow and Thor is mild manipulation Id hate to see Loki bloodlusted.

[MorphyVSFischer]

Flash is an earthbound superhero who cant touch a guy who is a phantom projection most of the time.

Loki could literally conduct the battle from a throne an Asgard lightyears away, while the Jl's are chasing phantom images and tearing each other apart.


"Mild emotion manipulation???" If making Hulk kill Widow and Thor is mild manipulation Id hate to see Loki bloodlusted.

Except here's the thing. The default starting distance to a fight here is 100 feet between them. Loki has zero and I mean zero team to do anything before Flash crosses that and starts punching him in the face.
Also he manipulated Banner into getting angry and attacking the team. Its not like the dude full out mind controlled him, he just let hulk be hulk. This is pretty confirmed by the fact that whenever someone WAS being mind controlled they had blue eyes.

[WaveHeater]

Except here's the thing. The default starting distance to a fight here is 100 feet between them. Loki has zero and I mean zero team to do anything before Flash crosses that and starts punching him in the face.
Also he manipulated Banner into getting angry and attacking the team. Its not like the dude full out mind controlled him, he just let hulk be hulk. This is pretty confirmed by the fact that whenever someone WAS being mind controlled they had blue eyes.

Loki was controlling Dr Selvig before the movie began from lightyears away. Watch the post credits of Thor. The blue-zombie thing just makes them autonomously obedient.

I dont see Loki sending his physical self onto the battlefield, especially when his projections are potent enough to fool Gods and he can manipulate from incredible distances. His unique powerset allows him to be there without actually being there.

How does Khazan deal with a being like Deadman(who doesnt have a physical body) or Brainiac who can fight long distance?

[FrenchGemini]

I dont see Loki sending his physical self onto the battlefield, especially when his projections are potent enough to fool Gods and he can manipulate from incredible distances. His unique powerset allows him to be there without actually being there.

How does Khazan deal with a being like Deadman(who doesnt have a physical body) or Brainiac who can fight long distance?

If the OP had explicitly said "Loki is allowed to send a projection in his stead", or had given him prep time to create one, it would have been a good argument. Except he didn't specify anything, so by default he, himself, starts at 100 feet from the opposing team, like the others. .

As for Deadman, I remember one fight with him, he was treated like a normal opponent. And I don't see why Brainiac should be allowed to start differently (except, once again, if the OP says otherwise)

[big_adventure]

Question about cartoon JLA: Does Flash hit harder than an assault rifle bullet? Because Comic Wally West obviously does, but Comic Barry Allen? Not so much. And if his hitting force is less than that, Loki flat out no-sells him until he gets around to casting a spell.

Granted, that's just Flash v. Loki - Superman is another story, and he'll slaughter Loki I'm assuming.

[Surtur]

Question about cartoon JLA: Does Flash hit harder than an assault rifle bullet? Because Comic Wally West obviously does, but Comic Barry Allen? Not so much. And if his hitting force is less than that, Loki flat out no-sells him until he gets around to casting a spell.

I'd say yes he does, otherwise I don't think he would of done much damage to Luthoriac.

There are also things to consider, like the episode where Luthor has control of Flashes body. It's done off screen, but we see that Flash has taken down entire groups of heroes..among them Captain Atom. Atom being durable enough to shrug off what seemed to be a grenade type weapon without any harm. Also wasn't he throwing objects with enough force that one got through Green Lantern's shield?

[FrenchGemini]

I'd say yes he does, otherwise I don't think he would of done much damage to Luthoriac.

There are also things to consider, like the episode where Luthor has control of Flashes body. It's done off screen, but we see that Flash has taken down entire groups of heroes..among them Captain Atom. Atom being durable enough to shrug off what seemed to be a grenade type weapon without any harm. Also wasn't he throwing objects with enough force that one got through Green Lantern's shield?

Yup, but I don't know if we can really take it at face value, since it might (or not) have been a way for the authors to imply that GL has the yellow weakness. But harming Captain Atom (who also has enough durability to take hits from Superman and enough strength to make Kal feel his own punches) should be more than enough to show that he can defeat Loki.

[big_adventure]

Yup, but I don't know if we can really take it at face value, since it might (or not) have been a way for the authors to show that GL has the yellow weakness. But harming Captain Atom (who also has enough durability to take hits from Superman and enough strength to make Kal feel his own punches) should be more than enough to show that he can defeat Loki.

If everyone is satisfied that it wasn't SMvFL, I think we have a winner!

I mean, if he usually needs to hit normal humans multiple times in a blitz to KO one, yet somehow one time managed to hurt a guy who survives punches-in-anger from Kal-El, well, that's kind of the SMvFL definition. So if "can hurt Captain Atom" is his usual punch level, that's probably sufficient to blitz Loki. One hit wouldn't do it, but thousands would probably be sufficient.

It doesn't change the fact that Superman himself is in this fight, and Loki will get slaughtered by him.

[Surtur]

The thing is, Luthor was essentially Flash not holding back. Though yes, I'm pretty sure he's taken down normal people with a punch.

[MorphyVSFischer]

Loki was controlling Dr Selvig before the movie began from lightyears away. Watch the post credits of Thor. The blue-zombie thing just makes them autonomously obedient.

I dont see Loki sending his physical self onto the battlefield, especially when his projections are potent enough to fool Gods and he can manipulate from incredible distances. His unique powerset allows him to be there without actually being there.

How does Khazan deal with a being like Deadman(who doesnt have a physical body) or Brainiac who can fight long distance?

How do we know he didn't touch Selvig sometime before that and the was able to mind control him from far away? The never even show, ever how Loki did it.
Also yes by default that Loki is physically there for fights. Otherwise its a bit pointless isn't it? Same with Brainiac and Deadman who are always treated as being there unless said otherwise.

[WaveHeater]

How do we know he didn't touch Selvig sometime before that and the was able to mind control him from far away? The never even show, ever how Loki did it.

Because Selvigs eyes were clearly NOT blue and the cosmic cube hadnt been unlocked yet. Long distance mind control is a natural part of Loki's powerset in the comics; the film honors that.

But harming Captain Atom (who also has enough durability to take hits from Superman and enough strength to make Kal feel his own punches

3 words: Red Sun Radiation.

The durability feats of Thor, Loki and Hulk are on par or very close with Toon Justice League. Hulk survived a nuclear blast in his first film, Thor has been hit point blank by repulsers strong enough to blowup alien spaceships, and Loki was walking unhindered after being ragdolled by the strongest man alive. Even Iron Man has taken better shots in these films than say...John Stewart.

They definitely last the first 3 seconds, and by then Loki is mind manipulating the team from an asteroid somewhere.

[FrenchGemini]

3 words: Red Sun Radiation.

True for the part where he makes him feel the punches, but he still took the hits on places where he didn't had red Sun Radiation, plus his punches really did send Kal flying around, so it's still quite impressive.