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  1. #46
    jealous of me sweetdumbass's Avatar
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    I agree with OP and hope Wolverine apologizes to Bishop when they meet. In Hell.

  2. #47
    Senior Member Meehl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    No I believe Marvel has applied the many worlds theory incorrectly because alternate realities are infinite. You can't destroy an alternate reality. All you can do is change your perspective. There is no way for Bishop to ensure Hope does not kill one million. All he can do is change his perspective by seeming to alter which reality she does this in but in the end there will always be a reality out there where Hope did kill one million people if we assume she did so at one point. It just that this Bishop and the comic book readers will simply not perceive it because it won't be shown. This logic applies to the Infinite Gauntlet or any such non-sense.

    Your bias simply precludes you from reading my posts objectively. You already admitted that Marvel believes timelines can be destroyed which again is simply bullshit from the perspective of the many worlds theory.
    Let's add to your list of nonsensical beliefs from which you pull from to argue nonsense: You can't apply current thinking on quantum mechanics to the MU. Our world doesn't have situations with Phoenix Forces and Infinity Gauntlets, which can erase timelines, so our theorists have posited a set of beliefs about timelines that is grossly incomplete when applied to the MU.
    VIVA KUSASAN!!! Morrison On Magneto: I made him into a stupid old drug-addicted idiot. CC had done a lot of good work over the years to redeem the character. And I went in and sh*t on all of it.

  3. #48
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post
    Moving' right along...
    http://www.againwiththecomics.com/20...r-concern.html

  4. #49
    Omega Mutant ZNOP's Avatar
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    Thanks but, I've always been a supporter of this concept.
    Hear me X-men! No longer am I the woman you once knew! I am fire and life incarnate! Now and forever...

    I AM PHOENIX!

  5. #50
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post

    Thanks but, I've always been a supporter of this concept.
    In the issue they explain that, that concept is false and that it is possible afterall.

  6. #51
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehl View Post
    Let's add to your list of nonsensical beliefs from which you pull from to argue nonsense: You can't apply current thinking on quantum mechanics to the MU. Our world doesn't have situations with Phoenix Forces and Infinity Gauntlets, which can erase timelines, so our theorists have posited a set of beliefs about timelines that is grossly incomplete when applied to the MU.
    You just said Marvel is consistent with the many worlds theory and then when I tell you why it isn't you respond by telling me why I shouldn't think it would be. You really need to make up your mind. Either it is consistent or it isn't. If you recognize it isn't then not sure why you would respond to my post by suggesting it is.

    And frankly I don't see why if universes are infinite, a cosmic entity would even bother destroying a single alternate reality. What would be the point? If I could see all realities why the fuck would I care if Hope kills a million people in one of them when there are an infinite number of others in which she doesn't? And frankly our theorists are well aware of the concept of a god whether they believe in him or not. Yet they still have posited the notion that timelines cannot be destroyed despite having knowledge that most humans believe in a concept of god which is fairly comparable to any cosmic entity in the MU.

    Look, if you want to limit yourself to whatever Marvel tells you then feel free. I am under no such obligation to read or enjoy comics as you do. However, it reflects poorly on you when all you seem to do is conjure up insult after insult rather than engage in any meaningful debate. It's like you are e-stalking me now. You don't like my opinions then disagree with me or ignoreme but be an adult and disagree without the petty insults. It's beneath you.

  7. #52
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post

    Thanks but, I've always been a supporter of this concept.
    Yes this is exactly it. You are not changing anything but your perspective of what you perceive as your reality.

  8. #53
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Yes this is exactly it. You are not changing anything but your perspective of what you perceive as your reality.
    In that very issue, it was explained by Reed and Doom that Kang lied And that concept is not true.

  9. #54
    Senior Member Meehl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    You just said Marvel is consistent with the many worlds theory and then when I tell you why it isn't you respond by telling me why I shouldn't think it would be. You really need to make up your mind. Either it is consistent or it isn't. If you recognize it isn't then not sure why you would respond to my post by suggesting it is.

    And frankly I don't see why if universes are infinite, a cosmic entity would even bother destroying a single alternate reality. What would be the point? If I could see all realities why the fuck would I care if Hope kills a million people in one of them when there are an infinite number of others in which she doesn't? And frankly our theorists are well aware of the concept of a god whether they believe in him or not. Yet they still have posited the notion that timelines cannot be destroyed despite having knowledge that most humans believe in a concept of god which is fairly comparable to any cosmic entity in the MU.

    Look, if you want to limit yourself to whatever Marvel tells you then feel free. I am under no such obligation to read or enjoy comics as you do. However, it reflects poorly on you when all you seem to do is conjure up insult after insult rather than engage in any meaningful debate. It's like you are e-stalking me now. You don't like my opinions then disagree with me or ignoreme but be an adult and disagree without the petty insults. It's beneath you.
    "Look, if you want to limit yourself to whatever Marvel tells you then feel free." Marvel editors determine the way quantum physics works in the MU. They're not trying to explain how quantum physics works in our world. Marvel editors/writers have written the cosmic code that holds the MU together. Your position, that you know more about current theories about quantum physics than Marvel editors, and therefore your opinions about quantum physics ought to be applied to the Marvel U is foolish and ridiculous and indefensible. You understand current thinking about quantum physics in our universe, but that's not the same as how quantum physics works in Marvel U. I don't believe Marvel has accurately represented quantum mechanics in our world. Nor, do I look to comic books to teach me accurate science.

    There's lot of things wrong with the Marvel from a physics standpoint. Cyclops should have dementia from the number of concussions that he's likely had. Spiderman's arms should rip off when he's swinging along. Except, Marvel physics are not our physics. Marvel physics have to be understood the way that Marvel tells us the physics works. There's also nothing in biology or genetics that justifies mutant powers of telekinesis. But, we accept it in the Marvel U. By analogy, you'd have to argue that there's no telekinesis in the Marvel U because your understanding of genetics doesn't allow for it happen. That's basically what you're doing by choosing to apply your view of quantum physics to the Marvel U.

    Marvel has offered a many worlds theory with the possibility of deleting or removing specific timelines due to certain cosmic forces. Why would the Phoenix remove a timeline? I don't know either, but your limited ability to reason and my impressive ability to reason are irrelevant to this. Our ability to understand the point of Phoenix Force has no bearing on whether Marvel allows timelines to be destroyed. Marvel tells us there are a near infinite number of alternative universes. Technically, the phoenix removes timelines that are broken and in danger of destroying other timelines. So, Marvel U has infinity minus the universes that have been removed.
    Last edited by Meehl; 05-06-2012 at 03:47 PM.
    VIVA KUSASAN!!! Morrison On Magneto: I made him into a stupid old drug-addicted idiot. CC had done a lot of good work over the years to redeem the character. And I went in and sh*t on all of it.

  10. #55
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehl View Post
    "Look, if you want to limit yourself to whatever Marvel tells you then feel free." Marvel editors determine the way quantum physics works in the MU. They're not trying to explain how quantum physics works in our world. Marvel editors/writers have written the cosmic code that holds the MU together. Your position, that you know more about current theories about quantum physics than Marvel editors, and therefore your opinions about quantum physics ought to be applied to the Marvel U is foolish and ridiculous and indefensible. You understand current thinking about quantum physics in our universe, but that's not the same as how quantum physics works in Marvel U. I don't believe Marvel has accurately represented quantum mechanics in our world. Nor, do I look to comic books to teach me accurate science.

    There's lot of things wrong with the Marvel from a physics standpoint. Cyclops should have dementia from the number of concussions that he's likely had. Spiderman's arms should rip off when he's swinging along. Except, Marvel physics are not our physics. Marvel physics have to be understood the way that Marvel tells us the physics works. There's also nothing in biology or genetics that justifies mutant powers of telekinesis. But, we accept it in the Marvel U. By analogy, you'd have to argue that there's no telekinesis in the Marvel U because your understanding of genetics doesn't allow for it happen. That's basically what you're doing by choosing to apply your view of quantum physics to the Marvel U.

    Marvel has offered a many worlds theory with the possibility of deleting or removing specific timelines due to certain cosmic forces. Why would the Phoenix remove a timeline? I don't know either, but your limited ability to reason and my impressive ability to reason are irrelevant to this. Our ability to understand the point of Phoenix Force has no bearing on whether Marvel allows timelines to be destroyed. Marvel tells us there are a near infinite number of alternative universes. Technically, the phoenix removes timelines that are broken and in danger of destroying other timelines. So, Marvel U has infinity minus the universes that have been removed.
    If you wish to suspend disbelief when you read a comic, it is your right to do so. Where you err is in assuming that just because you choose to enjoy comics that why that every one else must adhere to your beliefs. If I find something stupid in a comic, I will say so. And these theories are not new. Many worlds was first posited in 1957.

    If someone came on the boards and said Cyke should have dementia then guess what so be it. Again, if he wants to discuss why the writer is being stupid, why should I care. It is a message board. People can approach comics however they like. I am well aware that Marvel has a different view on science than is consistent with reality. I simply choose to highlight when I find their views especially silly. You are not exhibiting any great ability to reason by pointing out that Marvel has different rules. You are simply being presumptuous in insisting that everyone should ignore those rules simply because you choose to. Sometimes I will ignore them and other times I will say they are stupid.

  11. #56
    Senior Member Meehl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    If you wish to suspend disbelief when you read a comic, it is your right to do so. Where you err is in assuming that just because you choose to enjoy comics that why that every one else must adhere to your beliefs. If I find something stupid in a comic, I will say so. And these theories are not new. Many worlds was first posited in 1957.

    If someone came on the boards and said Cyke should have dementia then guess what so be it. Again, if he wants to discuss why the writer is being stupid, why should I care. It is a message board. People can approach comics however they like. I am well aware that Marvel has a different view on science than is consistent with reality. I simply choose to highlight when I find their views especially silly. You are not exhibiting any great ability to reason by pointing out that Marvel has different rules. You are simply being presumptuous in insisting that everyone should ignore those rules simply because you choose to. Sometimes I will ignore them and other times I will say they are stupid.
    I'm explaining to you that you are persisting in making an error in a certain kind of judgement. The "errors" in Marvel physics that you feel it necessary to point out are not actually "errors" at all. Physics just works differently over there. If you posted, "hey guys, isn't it funny that way Marvel physics is different from our physics. Here's some examples of how they differ" I wouldn't reply to you. Instead, you seem to arguing your opinions about whether characters are right or wrong based on your view of how physics works in our world. This would make your judgements about characters based on incorrect assumptions. This would make your judgements wrong in the literal sense of the word wrong (and literal). That's why I'm posting. Because you are often wrong because you base stuff off incorrect understanding of the explicit laws of the Marvel U.

    Example:

    Remy: If A [physics of the Marvel U are the way Remy thinks they are] then B [information about cause/effect relationship in MU]
    Me: A is explicitly incorrect given how physics seems to work in the Marvel U. Therefore, B is probably incorrect, too.
    Remy: But A is true given what I know from real life
    Me: Marvel has taken the responsibility to design the Marvel Universe and inform us about the design. A doesn't work in the Marvel U.
    Remy: Why are you stalking me, blah blah cry blah blah.
    Last edited by Meehl; 05-06-2012 at 04:21 PM.
    VIVA KUSASAN!!! Morrison On Magneto: I made him into a stupid old drug-addicted idiot. CC had done a lot of good work over the years to redeem the character. And I went in and sh*t on all of it.

  12. #57
    Omega Mutant ZNOP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    In that very issue, it was explained by Reed and Doom that Kang lied And that concept is not true.
    Except... There is a "COUNCIL of KANGS" that clearly says otherwise...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by ZNOP; 05-06-2012 at 04:39 PM.
    Hear me X-men! No longer am I the woman you once knew! I am fire and life incarnate! Now and forever...

    I AM PHOENIX!

  13. #58
    Shut up. fortyseven's Avatar
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    If you have special technology from Dr Doom (he hasn't created it yet), you can go into the past to change the future. It was a plot point in X-Factor. Cortex was using it to travel to the past to kill the grandparent and parents of important figures in the Summers Rebellion in Bishop's future. It's called a Doomlock.

  14. #59
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehl View Post
    I'm explaining to you that you are persisting in making an error in a certain kind of judgement. The "errors" in Marvel physics that you feel it necessary to point out are not actually "errors" at all. Physics just works differently over there. If you posted, "hey guys, isn't it funny that way Marvel physics is different from our physics. Here's some examples of how they differ" I wouldn't reply to you. Instead, you seem to arguing your opinions about whether characters are right or wrong based on your view of how physics works in our world. This would make your judgements about characters based on incorrect assumptions. This would make your judgements wrong in the literal sense of the word wrong (and literal). That's why I'm posting. Because you are often wrong because you base stuff off incorrect understanding of the explicit laws of the Marvel U.

    Example:

    Remy: If A [physics of the Marvel U are the way Remy thinks they are] then B [information about cause/effect relationship in MU]
    Me: A is explicitly incorrect given how physics seems to work in the Marvel U. Therefore, B is probably incorrect, too.
    Remy: But A is true given what I know from real life
    Me: Marvel has taken the responsibility to design the Marvel Universe and inform us about the design. A doesn't work in the Marvel U.
    Remy: Why are you stalking me, blah blah cry blah blah.
    Over 40 years, what's happened is that various marvel writers have simply fucked up and some of them have written stories consistent with the Copenhagen Interpreation (ie one reality) in which timelines correcting itself, paradoxes, time loops, and big events altering the timeline make sense because you are dealing with a single reality. Other writers have written stories that factor in the many worlds interpretation which doesn't need timelines correcting itself, paradoxes, time loops, and big events altering timelines because in a multi-verse events just happen differently in different realities. So fundamentally, I think a lot of shit has been written by a lot of people and taken as a whole a lot of it is simply inconsistent with each other. You simply close your eyes to these inconsistencies and pretend it was all part of Marvel's big plan. I simply call bullshit and say it is crap when it is crap. To each his own.

    And the e-stalking has nothing to do with you having an opinion. It has to do with you continually responding to my posts by misrepresenting what I said, hurling insults and generally not really debating anything. Case in point, my posts have nothing to do with incorrect understanding of the explicit laws of marvel because I have stated upfront that I know how things work in marvel but I simply don't care or find them to be bullshit. One can understand how things are and still disagree with it because it is in fact bullshit or illogical. That is what you don't get.

  15. #60
    Elder Member wolvie616's Avatar
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    Well played, exoduscloak. Well played.

    He doesn't owe anyone an apology, since he's going to team up with Hope. All speculation is pointless.
    Wolvie616 is Mozambiquey

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