Kill all mutants... and don't.

[Old Sparky]

Does anyone else think that AvX would be a good way to divorce the X-Men universe from the rest of Marvel?

All too often it seems like the persecution of mutants only happens within the pages of the X-books and the rest of Marvel's books may touch on it occasionally but it never seems quite as bad as it does in the mutant exclusive titles. At the end of AvX, they could release two finale issues...

In one where the Avengers win and mainstream Marvel (the 616) continues on without the X-Men... maybe some individuals survive here and there, and mutants as a whole aren't wiped out, but the "mutant crisis" or mutant threat is just back-burnered. This would allow them to keep Wolverine in both worlds, as well as maintain a rather significant number of non- X-Men specific mutant heroes and villains. Mutants are just no longer the big background threat society alleges them to be and what remains of them could move forward with integrating into regular society as many other mutants have successfully done.

In the other, the Phoenix Force decimates the bulk of the Avengers (and maybe sends the rest packing with scars they'll never recover from)... but the mutant population surges again. And with it, more race persecution and a rising concern that mutants are a dangerous threat to the world (since they could be blamed for killing the Avengers). Then their story can continue merrily on its way toward whatever bleak, dystopian future the writers wish to portray without the more accepted superhumans lording it over them like "We've assimilated, why can't you?"


Everybody wins! And maybe we could kill off Wolverine in both worlds instead of having him live on in each.

[tommyman]

Does anyone else think that AvX would be a good way to divorce the X-Men universe from the rest of Marvel?

All too often it seems like the persecution of mutants only happens within the pages of the X-books and the rest of Marvel's books may touch on it occasionally but it never seems quite as bad as it does in the mutant exclusive titles. At the end of AvX, they could release two finale issues...

In one where the Avengers win and mainstream Marvel (the 616) continues on without the X-Men... maybe some individuals survive here and there, and mutants as a whole aren't wiped out, but the "mutant crisis" or mutant threat is just back-burnered. This would allow them to keep Wolverine in both worlds, as well as maintain a rather significant number of non- X-Men specific mutant heroes and villains. Mutants are just no longer the big background threat society alleges them to be and what remains of them could move forward with integrating into regular society as many other mutants have successfully done.

In the other, the Phoenix Force decimates the bulk of the Avengers (and maybe sends the rest packing with scars they'll never recover from)... but the mutant population surges again. And with it, more race persecution and a rising concern that mutants are a dangerous threat to the world (since they could be blamed for killing the Avengers). Then their story can continue merrily on its way toward whatever bleak, dystopian future the writers wish to portray without the more accepted superhumans lording it over them like "We've assimilated, why can't you?"


Everybody wins! And maybe we could kill off Wolverine in both worlds instead of having him live on in each.

We are told that the monthly books count for nought, it's all about "collections", films and games.
Sony own all things X.
I say, sell Sony all the x-crap and leave the MU free and clean of Logan and Jean, like a gentleman who has had a bout of antibiotics to clear up a shamefully acquired rash of some sort.
All the mutants get taken by the phoenix to live on one of the many planets she genocide-ed away the population of, in her job as Cosmic-Hitler, and everybody lives happily ever after.
Can you imagine a Marvel without Wolverine in every book and team?
Ahhh.. the wonders and the splendours..

[Wren]

It's an interesting idea and I'd read it, but I don't think it's going to happen. It's basically splitting off another universe, in a much cooler way than Ultimate verse started.

Honestly... just stop having crossovers. Have the X-books never mention the Avengers again, and vice-versa. It's called suspension of disbelief and it used to work pretty well.

The problem isn't that the idea of mutants being prosecuted in a world where there are other superhumans, it's that the x-books whine about how other superhumans don't help them. Which hurts the other books because:

1) you're never going to have the FF/Avengers/etc. constantly showing up every time the x-books have a major show-down and problems with the USA. Then they'd just become x-books.

2) if you DON'T, you're tarnishing the heroes because of course it's hard to believe that Cap rules the USA military but the sentinel program is still on. In a true shared universe it would be his responsibility to stop it, and it would be out of character if he let it continue, and out of character if the mutants never told him about it since he knows them personally. But if he did, the X-books would lose 70% of their story potential.

[mikekerrIII]

It's an interesting idea and I'd read it, but I don't think it's going to happen. It's basically splitting off another universe, in a much cooler way than Ultimate verse started.

Honestly... just stop having crossovers. Have the X-books never mention the Avengers again, and vice-versa. It's called suspension of disbelief and it used to work pretty well.

The problem isn't that the idea of mutants being prosecuted in a world where there are other superhumans, it's that the x-books whine about how other superhumans don't help them. Which hurts the other books because:

1) you're never going to have the FF/Avengers/etc. constantly showing up every time the x-books have a major show-down and problems with the USA. Then they'd just become x-books.

2) if you DON'T, you're tarnishing the heroes because of course it's hard to believe that Cap rules the USA military but the sentinel program is still on. In a true shared universe it would be his responsibility to stop it, and it would be out of character if he let it continue, and out of character if the mutants never told him about it since he knows them personally. But if he did, the X-books would lose 70% of their story potential.

Two separate lines would probably be a very good idea.

But the idea that some have proposed of getting rid of the X-books makes no sense, why dump a product that sells better than the one you keep?

I don't think the Cap portrayed in SA#21 or this event would have any trouble with the Sentinels though

[Old Sparky]

Yeah, selling would be ridiculous... I'm just suggesting the two separate lines of books. Yes, the X-books would become an alternate reality, but then they could focus on what they really wanted to without the rest of the MU continuity getting in the way.

[Viteh]

"separate but equal"

[custodes]

Wouldn't it just be easier to stop the annoying government sponsored persecurtion of the mutants? Is there really a big difference between them and the other heroes who acquired super powers? Both can be genetically acquired in some cases.

Two mutants can have a human or a mutant.Two humans can have a mutant or a human. And one of each can have either. Heroes who acquire powers can pass them on too...or not. Why single out mutants?

Even better, why persecute super powered heroes at all? It is annoying whether outside the Baxter Building and Avengers Mansion or an anti-mutant protest.

There are plenty of villains out there. Anti-mutant hysteria annoys me as a plot device. Let's drop it. Or most of it. And after the Civil War and Registration Act we could use a break from that a well. The heroes were best without all the government interference. They are best as individuals and small groups fighting the good fight, in the dark.

[Viteh]

Wouldn't it just be easier to stop the annoying government sponsored persecurtion of the mutants? Is there really a big difference between them and the other heroes who acquired super powers? Both can be genetically acquired in some cases.

Two mutants can have a human or a mutant.Two humans can have a mutant or a human. And one of each can have either. Heroes who acquire powers can pass them on too...or not. Why single out mutants?

Even better, why persecute super powered heroes at all? It is annoying whether outside the Baxter Building and Avengers Mansion or an anti-mutant protest.

There are plenty of villains out there. Anti-mutant hysteria annoys me as a plot device. Let's drop it. Or most of it.

Can mutants have human children? (Pre-HoM)

[timeismoney]

That would be the worst idea i ever heard.

[custodes]

Can mutants have human children? (Pre-HoM)

They have......

[Old Sparky]

Wouldn't it just be easier to stop the annoying government sponsored persecurtion of the mutants? Is there really a big difference between them and the other heroes who acquired super powers? Both can be genetically acquired in some cases.

Two mutants can have a human or a mutant.Two humans can have a mutant or a human. And one of each can have either. Heroes who acquire powers can pass them on too...or not. Why single out mutants?

Even better, why persecute super powered heroes at all? It is annoying whether outside the Baxter Building and Avengers Mansion or an anti-mutant protest.

There are plenty of villains out there. Anti-mutant hysteria annoys me as a plot device. Let's drop it. Or most of it. And after the Civil War and Registration Act we could use a break from that a well. The heroes were best without all the government interference. They are best as individuals and small groups fighting the good fight, in the dark.

I would be all for dropping the anti-mutant plot device. Its old, tired, and outdated. But, you know, there will always be fans as well as writers who cling to it because what other stories are there to tell about mutants or some nonsense like that?

[mikekerrIII]

Can mutants have human children? (Pre-HoM)

Yes, Beaks kids were mixed

[Wren]

Wouldn't it just be easier to stop the annoying government sponsored persecurtion of the mutants? Is there really a big difference between them and the other heroes who acquired super powers? Both can be genetically acquired in some cases.

Mutants represent the next stage in evolution, making humans feel inferior. They used to have 16+ mill. mutants, and their population was rising, unlike other superhumans. That's why in HoM they had a depression epidemic among humans.

This sounds stupid, because the mutant-human divide is full of holes, but racism sounds stupid too.

I think without the prosecution angle mutants basically lose 80% of what makes them interesting. Otherwise it's just a hand-wave for the "how he got his powers" question. The only other direction I can think of for the X-books is going into the future: have mutants start to gradually take over and explore what kinds of obstacles humanity will face as start having huge variations in terms of what "human" means. basically what Morrison did in New X-Men.
Which I would love to read about but it tanks Marvel's "realism in comics" thing. That would make a cool on-going AU though.

I do get tired of mutant prosecution as a plot-device. I think the x-books milk it too much. It's more half-assed dystopia than minority prosecution at this point.

[Corey W]

I would be all for dropping the anti-mutant plot device. Its old, tired, and outdated. But, you know, there will always be fans as well as writers who cling to it because what other stories are there to tell about mutants or some nonsense like that?

Although there wasn't any anti-mutant bias in the beginning, it has been the plot engine for 40 years. It would be shocking if Marvel ever let it disappear.

I do think that for awhile there were too many mutants. It made sense when there were only a few dozen. Once there were several million the stories seemed silly to me. I don't think that the believablity of Marvel Earth can function when there are tens of millions of superhumans. Why would we ever fear Galactus, or the Celestials. We would trounce them if they showed up.

I thought House of M was a good idea for that, but it has bogged down the X Books and something needs to be done to move on. Maybe AvX will be that chance.

[Viteh]

Yes, Beaks kids were mixed

I thought they were all mutants (they looked like mutants at least), and that only one of them kept their powers after HoM.

About the whole mutant persecution/racism etc, I remember reading someone saying that they will keep mutants like that as long as there's people that can indentify with that.