Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

[mikekerrIII]

My single biggest complaint is that they are taking the Heroes out of Super-hero comics, And the editors allow characters to be become villains for the purpose of a little excitement in a single issue/arc.

fore example I would not let my kids if they were still young< read Captain America anymore because you now never know id he is going to go Jack Bauer.

[stephen wacker]

Except that we aren't complaining for the fun of it, but because there is a serious issue at the moment.

Agreed. This is a very serious issue. i mean there's upwards of NINE people complaining on a message board. If you extrapolate that to the general population...it's, like, TEN!

Something must be done. How long can Marvel last what with it's successful movies and being the #1 comic book publisher? If they just listened more intently to the internet who knows how far they could fall!?!?!

SW

[stephen wacker]

My single biggest complaint is that they are taking the Heroes out of Super-hero comics, And the editors allow characters to be become villains for the purpose of a little excitement in a single issue/arc.

fore example I would not let my kids if they were still young< read Captain America anymore because you now never know id he is going to go Jack Bauer.

We hate America, right Mike? Why are you backing off of this? Don't let the mods dictate your honesty.

SW

[Corey W]

Since editors let Cap become a torturer too little has a lot of weight

Agreed. The numerous easily fixable continuity gaffes are also a mistake. Look, if it is too difficult to fix because fixing it would ruin the story (Doom being in Latveria with Wanda at the start of Children's Crusade) just let it ride. Story takes precedence. But if it is easy to fix (Radioactive Man in X-Sanction) fix it. What else would an editor be for? Also, editors need to decide when a character will be damaged by a story and stop it. Maybe whoever edits SA thinks Cap as Jack Bauer isn't a big deal. If so, that's odd but at least there is a hand at the tiller. Much more troubling is the impression that Cap could have personally tortured the innocents to death, including a baby, a grandmother, and three saintly nuns, and editorial would have viewed it as badass and gritty.

To Lady Alternate's question of can we point to anything Marvel is doing better today than in the past: The movieverse. Twenty-five years ago the concept of a big budget Marvel film that was also good seemed laughable. They have made great and enjoyable strides.

The Ultimate Line was a good idea too. I don't read it unless I get a specific recommendation, but I think it was a good idea.

[CaptCleghorn]

Marvel has a much more aesthetic sized UPC code box than DC does. The thinner box is less intrusive on the cover image.

There, argue that; it's definitely a Marvel and DC difference.

[mikekerrIII]

We hate America, right Mike? Why are you backing off of this? Don't let the mods dictate your honesty.

SW

I don't think you hate America or the Military.

You trash the military seemingly just of of nearly complete ignorance, habit and convenience, That is not hate it is just pitiful.

Having an evil government as a crutch must be convenient, since it removes any need to thing up new enemies and plots and the same overused ones can be repeated again and again. That is not hate, just laziness and a lack of creativity.

For that a man that makes his living with words, that was a puny attempt at distraction and had nothing at all to do with the post you replied to. I posed the question of why the editors let Cap become torturer, if they had any responsibility to protect the character they blew it.

[Umbra]

Mike, the MU government isn't evil. We already had that debate. Why do you continue to say this? I mean, we just saw Marvel spot light the Army Rangers in Battle scars..only for it to be nit picked to death. This is odd.

There are factions inside the government that are shoddy. Beyond that, Idk.

[joemauer]

Agreed. This is a very serious issue. i mean there's upwards of NINE people complaining on a message board. If you extrapolate that to the general population...it's, like, TEN!

Something must be done. How long can Marvel last what with it's successful movies and being the #1 comic book publisher? If they just listened more intently to the internet who knows how far they could fall!?!?!

SW

Anyone else think that the supposed 'Stephen Wacker' who posts here really is one of the higher ups at DC?
I mean someone at Marvel wouldn't constantly insult their fan base? Right?


Anyway back on topic. I feel comics are not as great. Paying $3 or $4 for a comic that doesn't progress the story/characters much feels like a rip off when I can buy old comics or TPBs for a $1 or $2 and get much more of a story.

[mikekerrIII]

Mike, the MU government isn't evil. We already had that debate. Why do you continue to say this? I mean, we just saw Marvel spot light the Army Rangers in Battle scars..only for it to be nit picked to death. This is odd.

So the MRA, the MRD, Operation zero tolerance, letting Osborn drive the mutants to Utopia, and a complete lack of cotrol of it's own operations are not acts of an evil government? If genocide, statutory bigotry and death squads operating with government authority are not the signs of an evil movement what is?

Can you show me one sane senior military officer in the MU? Do you understand that Gaunllet could not have been a more insulting portrait of an malignantly incompetent buffoon of an NCO if they had hired experts to create one? I don't think it the porrtail was hate driven it just showed societal perceptions and ignorance.

There are factions inside the government that are shoddy. Beyond that, Idk.

If it was a rarity I could by the faction bit, but over the Years it has become the Norm, And if it was just rogue factions then Hill, HandCooper, Gyrich and company would not continualy be employed or re-employed. things like Gamma force could not be pulled off by a faction and Zero Tolerance had presidential authorization to round up the mutants. They have overused that rogue faction BS so much that it has become unbelievable that it is simply rogue factions.

There is a saying Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and the third time is enemy action, the Mu government is closer to it;s three hundredth time that it's third

It look like Wacker's straw-man did work since the topic was originally about why the editors let Cap be turned into a Jack Bauer wannabe

[Simbob4000]

Its the diverse titles at DC that are really great IMO. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, I Vampire, etc are some the best written books on the market right now. I'm still reading Green Lantern and Flash but thats more out of habit than them being great. Batman was a good book considering it was Batman but its now at issue #8 done whats always made me not read Batman by having some mega event which means you have to read a gazillion books to get the whole story. So now I no longer read Batman.

Marvel USED to put out some great diverse books. Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Britain and MI13, Agents of Atlas, etc were great books that obviously weren't going to sell like gangbusters without nurturing and time to grow. None of them got both of those things. Nova and GotG got sidelined for several cosmic events in a row when they should have been front and center for the push would have come from that while the others weren't a focal point of anything. Now Marvel is all Avengers and X-men and Avengers vs X-men. Yawn! Speaking of which, I'm horrified that someone actually allowed this abomination of AvX on the page. In concept it sounds cools and could have been great but the execution of it is horrible. I actually bought the first two issues (my first Marvel books in six months), I won't be reading more, and they were beyond bad. Hardly anyone was written in character, there was no respect at all for past continuity . . not even a throwaway line or two, and its clearly just a lazily done cash grab that is all concept and no substance.

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a new Guardians of the Galaxy comic, what with Marvel making a Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

[timeismoney]

So the MRA, the MRD, Operation zero tolerance, letting Osborn drive the mutants to Utopia, and a complete lack of cotrol of it's own operations are not acts of an evil government? If genocide, statutory bigotry and death squads operating with government authority are not the signs of an evil movement what is?

Can you show me one sane senior military officer in the MU? Do you understand that Gaunllet could not have been a more insulting portrait of an malignantly incompetent buffoon of an NCO if they had hired experts to create one? I don't think it the porrtail was hate driven it just showed societal perceptions and ignorance.
If it was a rarity I could by the faction bit, but over the Years it has become the Norm, And if it was just rogue factions then Hill, HandCooper, Gyrich and company would not continualy be employed or re-employed. things like Gamma force could not be pulled off by a faction and Zero Tolerance had presidential authorization to round up the mutants. They have overused that rogue faction BS so much that it has become unbelievable that it is simply rogue factions.

There is a saying Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and the third time is enemy action, the Mu government is closer to it;s three hundredth time that it's third

It look like Wacker's straw-man did work since the topic was originally about why the editors let Cap be turned into a Jack Bauer wannabe

You do understand that America used torturer even when we lied in said we didn't and i am not talking about comics. So what if Cap use torturer whatever to save lives.

[tolworthy]

Anyone else think that the supposed 'Stephen Wacker' who posts here really is one of the higher ups at DC?

You may have a point. I normally avoid being a grammar Nazi (as I make plenty of mistakes myself and have no excuse) but it seems odd that a professional editor would use "it's" instead of "its" - e.g. "How long can Marvel last what with it's successful movies". But we all make mistakes so I'm assuming he's legit.

How long can Marvel last what with it's successful movies and being the #1 comic book publisher?

Being number 1 in a small and shrinking market is not a healthy place to be. Hopefully the fashion for superhero flicks will go on for years - Spider-man can be rebooted every ten years indefinitely. But movies by their nature tell short stories. A lot of us are concerned that the richer, longer comic stories are in long term decline. Maybe digital will turn it around?

[nosocialize100]

Marvel comics have changed.

And also, all the decompression has made single issue reads far less interesting than used to be the case. I guess, to fully take in a Marvel story now, buying the TPB would be the way to go.

Of all the things you said I agree with this the most, but this isn't a Marvel problem its an industry problem.

I've been reviewing comics for a site for the last 5 months and I can safely say 80% of the comics each week are decompressed and written for the trade paperback. It's frustrating, especially since my comic review column is focused on finding the best single issue reads of each week that can fit into a 10 dollar budget. Very often I can't choose books that are good but short on content simply because there isn't much bang for your buck.

[Corey W]

Of all the things you said I agree with this the most, but this isn't a Marvel problem its an industry problem.

I've been reviewing comics for a site for the last 5 months and I can safely say 80% of the comics each week are decompressed and written for the trade paperback. It's frustrating, especially since my comic review column is focused on finding the best single issue reads of each week that can fit into a 10 dollar budget. Very often I can't choose books that are good but short on content simply because there isn't much bang for your buck.

Many books are written for trade now. I wonder what percentage of readers only by trades. I am one (with rare exceptions such as Cap Reborn or AvX because I want to participate in the debate online while it is going on).

[vh4ever]

I'd like to point out that he's not calling his company's fanbase stupid. He's calling the constantly-droning-and-moaning-not-a-single-positive-thing-to-say-only-happy-when-it-rains-doom-and-gloom-and-seriously-is-this-how-people-live-their-lives posters on this board stupid.

Which puts me in his corner. Don't change, SW, love ya babes. ♥ x ♥ x ♥

No, he pretty much demeans anyone who criticizes Marvel, for their business practices, even those of us with business/ economic degrees (hi), or simply stating that an individual is unhappy with Marvel content in general, whatever it may be.

Where Didio is tone deaf to the fanbase, Wacker's the 'High and Dry' of the comics circus.