Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

[matthewaos]

I think the best answer to this thread is that for somethings marvel has changed for the better and for some things for the worse. But I see it like this: I have a friend who is 53, I am 28, he is one classic rock fan, but I can't make him listen to stuff I listen too. He however understand the fact that he can't listen to them because they do not represent his age.

[CTpitch]

No. Nobody else has any negative opinions regarding Marvel. On this board? Come on, that'd just be silly.

god even I a Bendis hater gets a little tired of the constant "Marvel isn't what it used to be" they still make some great some phenomenal comics

[tolworthy]

I think it's great that Stephen Wacker posts here - any inside opinion at all should be gold dust. Even if we disagree with it (as some people do occasionally) we need to understand it.

everything always used to be better!

Judging by sales, more people liked the old stuff. Obviously price is a big part of this: comics used to cost 96c (12c plus inflation), so for $3 or $4 we expect far more.

Art/writing nowadays is too realistic /not realistic enough!!

Both can be true. Comics are grittier, with more frames devoted to the mundane. Yet revolving resurrections are accepted and history is routinely forgotten.

And don't get me started on editors who edit too much and too little!!

I can see how that would be frustrating for an editor, perhaps we should have a poll? Some forms of editing may be generally hated (e.g. forcing a crossover) while others may be generally desired (e.g. making art readable).

Cant you all agree that all fans secretly hate Marvel?!

Maybe we need some kind of reputation system, or more use of polls, some way to cut through the noise of apparently random complaints.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

Personal opinion is too subjective for me to say whether Marvel has gotten worse in general.

Thats a fine point to make. However i'm going to have to respectfully disagree. If we are talking personal preference, or artistic merit, then yes its completely subjective. However if we are talking purely technical skill then thats judged much more objectively. An objectively the quality of the characterization, the narrative causality & expansion of the universe is right down at the moment & has been for atleast 18 months now. Best example is Avengers: it lacks for depth, any sort of victory, any sort of heroics, any sort of forward movement plot wise & is just one poorly written fight scene after another, with issues of go no where talking heads issues.

I think the best answer to this thread is that for somethings marvel has changed for the better and for some things for the worse.

Do you have any particualr examples of things that Marvel have improved with time?

[kelly_warrior_princess]

I think it's great that Stephen Wacker posts here - any inside opinion at all should be gold dust. Even if we disagree with it (as some people do occasionally) we need to understand it.

Not really all that useful. If it were inside information, something that actually expanded our understanding of the industry that would be helpful. Thats not what we are getting. What we get is somebody who constantly calls his own companies fanbase stupid, resorts to the appeal to motive logical fallacy & general just causes drama. Thats in no way helpful & i'd go so far as to say detremential to the boards in general.

[Lady_Alternate]

Not really all that useful. If it were inside information, something that actually expanded our understanding of the industry that would be helpful. Thats not what we are getting. What we get is somebody who constantly calls his own companies fanbase stupid, resorts to the appeal to motive logical fallacy & general just causes drama. Thats in no way helpful & i'd go so far as to say detremential to the boards in general.

I'd like to point out that he's not calling his company's fanbase stupid. He's calling the constantly-droning-and-moaning-not-a-single-positive-thing-to-say-only-happy-when-it-rains-doom-and-gloom-and-seriously-is-this-how-people-live-their-lives posters on this board stupid.

Which puts me in his corner. Don't change, SW, love ya babes. ♥ x ♥ x ♥

[CTpitch]

-Lack of fresh talent writer and art-wise.

writers
Cullen Bunn
James Asmus
Nick Spenser
Dennis Hopeless
David Liss
Sam Humphries
Chris Yost

artist
Phil Noto
Jamie McKelvie
Ryan Stegman
Chris Samnee
Nick Bradshaw
Clay Mann
Paolo Rivera

ya I don't see any fresh talent either

[timeismoney]

For people who dislike Marvel why are y'all crying about it when you cannot read it. Their are other companies out there i'm sure with comic you like as for Marvel it's all about opinions and like they they are like buttholes, everybody got one. Oddly Marvel sales don't look to be head downward maybe its just here at CBR that fans are upset with Marvel just saying.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

I'd like to point out that he's not calling his company's fanbase stupid. He's calling the constantly-droning-and-moaning-not-a-single-positive-thing-to-say-only-happy-when-it-rains-doom-and-gloom-and-seriously-is-this-how-people-live-their-lives posters on this board stupid.

Which puts me in his corner. Don't change, SW, love ya babes. ♥ x ♥ x ♥

Except that we aren't complaining for the fun of it, but because there is a serious issue at the moment. It's like going to the hospital with a broken leg & having the nurse complain because you're trying to seek medical aid: Damn whinny patient, what does he think this is, some sort of medical facility? Stupid complaining patients, if they don't like the service they can go somewhere else.

See what i mean. When your fanbase is saying "dude there are serious issues with declinning quality," the answer isn't "no, you're just to stupid." Or as the old business school maxim goes: Listen twice, speak once.

For people who dislike Marvel why are y'all crying about it when you cannot read it.

Thats exactly what i'm talking about: People want marvel not to suck, because they are committed fans of the universe: They complain because they care.

[timeismoney]

I'd like to point out that he's not calling his company's fanbase stupid. He's calling the constantly-droning-and-moaning-not-a-single-positive-thing-to-say-only-happy-when-it-rains-doom-and-gloom-and-seriously-is-this-how-people-live-their-lives posters on this board stupid.

Which puts me in his corner. Don't change, SW, love ya babes. ♥ x ♥ x ♥

From some of the post most of them are not Marvel fan so if he call them stupid that's not calling a fan stupid because they are clearly not fans of Marvel right now.

[timeismoney]

Except that we aren't complaining for the fun of it, but because there is a serious issue at the moment. It's like going to the hospital with a broken leg & having the nurse complain because you're trying to seek medical aid: Damn whinny patient, what does he think this is, some sort of medical facility? Stupid complaining patients, if they don't like the service they can go somewhere else.

See what i mean. When your fanbase is saying "dude there are serious issues with declinning quality," the answer isn't "no, you're just to stupid." Or as the old business school maxim goes: Listen twice, speak once.



Thats exactly what i'm talking about: People want marvel not to suck, because they are committed fans of the universe: They complain because they care.

That might be some what true but most people just complain to complain and them sucking is a matter of opinion and not fact because if the suck the way people say they do why are they still the number 1 comic company. Sure i say believe something at Marvel need to change but what people say Marvel is guilty of look close and most of the industry is. As one fan once posted here Marvel is a victim of own success they spoiled their fans so that now everything has be done a certain way or they are not happy.

[Lady_Alternate]

People want marvel not to suck, because they are committed fans of the universe: They complain because they care.

Except that's not what goes on here. Here people complain because Marvel isn't some shiny ideal that meets their exact moon-on-a-stick expectations, and so they constantly lament for "glory days" of the past.

It's old, it's dull, and it's not constructive. These aren't people going into hospital with a broken leg being told to stop whining, these are people who keep going back to their doctor time and again to complain that they're CLEARLY suffering from some awful tropical disease that they read about on Netdoctor.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

From some of the post most of them are not Marvel fan so if he call them stupid that's not calling a fan stupid because they are clearly not fans of Marvel right now.

How is that any better? Thats resorting to that old tribalism nonsense again. If Marvels got a product & DC has a product & people who purchase the DC product could also be purchasing the Marvel product & that would benefit Marvel, then how is someone who is working for Marvel insulting potential customers a good thing?

Becuase it really isn't an us versus them kind of thing. In fact thats why i took my pull list out of my signature: To many people keep on with the silly "well obviously you are a DC fan because you have no narvel books on your list" nonsense. The opposite is true: i'm a huge Marvel fan, i have no marvel books on my list because Marvels quality dropped & the books i was reading stopped being worth the expenditure.

Its not an us versus them kind of thing & the sooner we all realise this, the better off the industry will be in general.

Except that's not what goes on here. Here people bitch because Marvel isn't some shiny ideal that meets their exact moon-on-a-stick expectations, and so they constantly lament for "glory days" of the past.

theres a difference between not reaching all impossible standards & not reaching any mediocre standards & thats exactly what people are saying. The writing has declined... A lot. At some point the writing is going to fall beneath the "caring border" & people drop books. People are saying thats whats happening with them. Thats something a business should listen to. If i tell you that the books we had from you 24 momnths ago are better then the ones we are getting now, then thats something you should be looking into.

[timeismoney]

Man how many of these thread pop up from my point of view this is what i see. people on make these thread because they no it going to bring in all the Marvel hater who for some reason drop Marvel books but always no whats going on in them. Now make thread about what you like about Marvel that is sure to keep them away.

[timeismoney]

How is that any better? Thats resorting to that old tribalism nonsense again. If Marvels got a product & DC has a product & people who purchase the DC product could also be purchasing the Marvel product & that would benefit Marvel, then how is someone who is working for Marvel insulting potential customers a good thing?

Becuase it really isn't an us versus them kind of thing. In fact thats why i took my pull list out of my signature: To many people keep on with the silly "well obviously you are a DC fan because you have no narvel books on your list" nonsense. The opposite is true: i'm a huge Marvel fan, i have no marvel books on my list because Marvels quality dropped & the books i was reading stopped being worth the expenditure.

Its not an us versus them kind of thing & the sooner we all realise this, the better off the industry will be in general.



theres a difference between not reaching all impossible standards & not reaching any mediocre standards & thats exactly what people are saying. The writing has declined... A lot. At some point the writing is going to fall beneath the "caring border" & people drop books. People are saying thats whats happening with them. Thats something a business should listen to. If i tell you that the books we had from you 24 momnths ago are better then the ones we are getting now, then thats something you should be looking into.

I would assume that it is stupid to complain about the same thing in a 100 post or a 100 thread people get most people don't like what Marvel is putting out but they still read even when acting like the don't. That's like me complaining about how coca cola is to sweet but still drink it logic just seem to fall short on these forms.