Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

[Chiasm]

Because DC has gone all in on their line of DIVERSE titles, some will stay, some will fade, Marvel has three main camps: Spider, Avenger, and X-Title. Their remaining books crosspollenate with one (or more) of those. Kinda boring. Not that DC is blazing a trail, but they're doing a better job of reaching out to that niche reader or that *gasp* elusive 'new' reader than Marvel is with its 7 X-Titles.

Its the diverse titles at DC that are really great IMO. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, I Vampire, etc are some the best written books on the market right now. I'm still reading Green Lantern and Flash but thats more out of habit than them being great. Batman was a good book considering it was Batman but its now at issue #8 done whats always made me not read Batman by having some mega event which means you have to read a gazillion books to get the whole story. So now I no longer read Batman.

Marvel USED to put out some great diverse books. Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Britain and MI13, Agents of Atlas, etc were great books that obviously weren't going to sell like gangbusters without nurturing and time to grow. None of them got both of those things. Nova and GotG got sidelined for several cosmic events in a row when they should have been front and center for the push would have come from that while the others weren't a focal point of anything. Now Marvel is all Avengers and X-men and Avengers vs X-men. Yawn! Speaking of which, I'm horrified that someone actually allowed this abomination of AvX on the page. In concept it sounds cools and could have been great but the execution of it is horrible. I actually bought the first two issues (my first Marvel books in six months), I won't be reading more, and they were beyond bad. Hardly anyone was written in character, there was no respect at all for past continuity . . not even a throwaway line or two, and its clearly just a lazily done cash grab that is all concept and no substance.

[Corey W]

I don't blame Marvel for GotG failing. They got a huge push out of the two Annihilation events and then were given two years and two events to make it happen. It was a good try.

AvX seems like it is an event that will be hard to judge until the end. The main book is moving at breakneck pace and leaving a lot unexplained which is causing complaints. Several of the complaints have been answered in the tie-ins.

For example, why was Beast part of the space team--that makes no sense. Unless you read Secret Avengers and learn that he thinks he has created a device to control the Phoenix but it still needs tinkering.

I have to admit though, I am a sucker for hero v. hero fights and don't much care about the plots as long as someone gets smacked in the face with an uru hammer or an indestructible shield.

[Chiasm]

I don't blame Marvel for GotG failing. They got a huge push out of the two Annihilation events and then were given two years and two events to make it happen. It was a good try.

Actually they didn't exist at the time of the first Annihilation event and were created in the 2nd. Now some of the eventual GOTG like Starlord and Drax were involved in the first but the book spun out of the 2nd. Then they were largely MIA for the next few cosmic events while the Inhumans, space X-men, and others got a push. A book with so many C and D list characters isn't going to thrive without constant pushing so it was a mistake to keep them on the sidelines for the subsequent events. By the time they came front and center again event wise the book was in cancellation range.

[Chiasm]

My view is that all eras have a mix of great, good, average and bad and we tend to forget the average and bad, unless it is so bad that it characterizes the era (see 1990s, then we forget the good).

*snip*

The 90s are remembered for belts, pockets, BIG guns, every character having swords or claws, Liefeld, and glossy covers. But there was also Marvels, Kingdom Come, Byrne's WCA, Waid's Cap, and the good stories that came out of Heroes Return including Busiek's Avengers.

The 90's get a bad rap. I think all of us are jaded toward the 90's because the market was so flooded that a lot of it was of mediocre quality, the overpriced gimmicks, and then the collapse. But despite all that a lot of great stuff came out in the 90's. Age of Apocalypse in my opinion was not only the greatest event in all of comic history it was also one of the most daring given that if it had backfired it could have submarined the #1 franchise in all of comics. There were other great events (and some crappy ones) and a lot of great innovation.

[Corey W]

Re GotG: I know they spun out of the second event. But the second event followed on the heels of the first and Gamora, Star Lord, Drax, and Phylla all got pushes in the first one. It clearly was setting up those characters for something down the road.

I also agree that the Inhumans got pushed in War and Realm of Kings and both of those events sucked. Having the GotG get pushed out of the spotlight for crappy events didn't help (and is about when I lost interest) but I am sure Marvel was trying to help. I don't blame them for the effort. They were trying to push a bigger cosmic marvel and the rising tide could have helped to float all boats.

Re 90s: Completely agree Chiasm. Even a lot of the stuff that we mock now was actually better than we remember. For example, the early Venom stories were awesome. Cap Wolf is not nearly as bad an arc as people who haven't read it think. Harras's Avengers is criminally underrated. And X-Factor was awesome. I can't believe how little love the 90s X-Factor gets in discussions of great runs.

[timeismoney]

Marvel is what is and for all the complaining it still hasn't hurt their sales what's good and what's bad is very objective just as many people love the current Marvel as their are people who hate it. The same can be said for DC new 52 I see more DC fan worry about Marvel than Marvel fans, like it or hate it Marvel is the number 1 comic company in the world and that is not going to change any time soon. Now I am off to see the Avengers again because this is one kick ass movies.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

Yes, they have changed as everything should over time.

Sure, an it changed for the worst. Change is not on its own a positive force.

[vicvega]

wanted to know if some people shared my sentiments
my problems are:
-the superheroes pretty much hate each other
-the mutants are still outcasted even though they've been around for years
-Characters that die always get revived
-Bendis can't write team books
-The constant threat of event fatigue. Fear itself was shoddy, and AvX is only slightly better
-Lack of fresh talent writer and art-wise. Look at DC culling in fresh talent like Lemire, Snyder, and Mieville as well as others and some fresh art talent as well like Francis Manapul and JH Willaims III. Marvel has been using these same guys for over a decade its time for a change. Remender, Hickman and Brubaker are the best they've got.

I do read quite a few Marvel titles but Marvel has some serious issues that need to be addressed, like how quite a few of the superheroes hate each other and that not a single, NEW memorable character has been introduced. What are your problems with Marvel, and what should they do to address it?

[vicvega]

Honestly Marvel should get rid of some of their artists. Chris Samnee is terrible, as demonstrated by his use of misconstrued anatomy and paper-thin characters in a recent issue of Ultimate Spidey. Terry Dodson on Defenders is way too simplistic with his character designs while his backgrounds are the only interesting things coming out of it. John Romita Jr. gets worse and worse with each issue ending up with meat-and-potatoes layouts that all have characters with the exact same build and body shape.

they should let Mark Millar pick artists. He has good taste in art. Leinil Yu, Steve McNive, Frank Quitely, Dave Gibbons, J.G. Jones. etc/

[Aziz Abbasi]

wanted to know if some people shared my sentiments
my problems are:
-the mutants are still outcasted even though they've been around for years
-Bendis can't write team books
-The constant threat of event fatigue. Fear itself was shoddy, and AvX is only slightly better

I will agree with those, and add:

-Spider-Man should be solo again, or retire
-Wolverine should quit all those teams he's on, except the X-Men
-Red Hulk should be retconned
-Quit curing Banner just to eventually make him the Hulk again, that's one of the most outplayed gags in Hulk books
-Phoenix should return to space, and never again in X-Men books, or any Marvel title
-Red Shulkie should be dead again

[JohnShil]

I disagree with most of your points, so I'll probably come back and form arguments for each.

My own problems with Marvel, though, begin with Bendis. His AVENGERS has been consistently awful, worthless and unimportant for the entirety of his run. I'm astonished at how what should be the flagship Marvel book is just Bendis doing whatever he wants. His focus on characters like Luke Cage, Spider-Woman and Jessica Jones is laughable. The roster, in general, has been deplorable.

In addition, Brubaker needs to stop writing superhero comics. Captain America's been bleh since Steve came back, as is Winter Soldier.

Nick Fury, Jr. was a mistake.

Why is Rucka's Punisher run not amazing? This should be a worthy successor to Aaron's (despite not being MAX) but it's just... flat.

When was the last time something happened in Fraction's Iron Man?

And now a list of creators that Marvel needs to drop ASAP:
Brian Bendis
Daniel Way
John Romita, Jr.
Everyone that's been drawing Incredible Hulk
Nick Bradshaw
Mark Bagley
Jeph Loeb
Ed McGuinness
Greg Land
Salvador Larocca

[Telos]

There are a few things that bother me about Marvel:

• Inattention to continuity. For example, there are lots of conflicting developments between Bendis's Avengers, Hickman's Fantastic Four, Fraction's Mighty Thor and Avengers: The Children's Crusade.
• Price, especially since I live overseas. Trades are way too expensive and often include too few issues.
• Bad writers on flagship titles. Bendis comes to mind, along with Loeb, Millar, Fraction...
• Bad artists. Why are there so many on Marvel titles right now?
• Characters are regularly killed off only to be revived later. I hate event killings because they're devoid of emotion. We all know the characters are coming back, we're just pissed off that we can't read about them for the next 12-36 months.
• Decompression. Again, Bendis, but also Brubaker, Fraction and Hickman.
• Lack of genre diversity and miniseries. Everything being published by Marvel is an ongoing or an event. Almost all of the titles fall into either "Avengers", "X-Men" or "has been published since the Silver Age".

And biggest of all...

Disney's total contempt for the comic book market and lack of attempt to break through to mainstream audiences. Superficial changes like Marcus Fury and Hawkeye's costume are not enough to raise sales - the public have to be aware that comic books exist and are a viable form of entertainment, and that requires marketing.

[Trallis]

Is it the Universe you have a problem with, or the company itself? You could come up with a laundry list of problems with any comic book publisher. There's gonna be some things you don't like. Buy the comic books that YOU like. If you bought a regular book from a book publisher, you wouldn't expect every book they put out to be your cup of tea.. Don't ask why Marvel doesn't change something you don't like...ask yourself why you're still reading it. More often than not, it's because you still like what you're reading. If you don't like Bendis' team books or major events, don't pick them up. If you need more comics to read, just check out some indy stuff. I read one DC book, A bunch from Marvel and a few Indies, and I completely enjoy every comic I read. As for the Marvel universe superheroes hating each other, are you saying that because of AvX? Pretty much all of my favorite Marvel characters seem to like each other for the most part.. I'm a fan of Spidey, Daredevil, Human Torch, Iron Man, Iron Fist.. then there's Deadpool, but everyone hates him. If you haven't checked out the Ultimate Universe, you might want to try that out because it seems like that's the type of stuff you're looking for. I can't promise some superheroes won't hate each other, but the mutants are fairly new, characters that die usually don't come back, there seem to be fewer events, and all the writers are great.

[vicvega]

1. I think Millar is an on and off writer. Supercrooks and Superior are his best work as well as The Ultimates and American Jesus and Kick-Ass 1. His worst work is when he gets overindulgent in the gore, violence and swearing ie Kick-Ass 2, Wanted, Nemesis, and the Unfunnies. Hes a polarizing writer

2. Bad artists I agree on. Leinil Yu is the best they've got right now imo

3. On decompression, it only works well in some titles. For instance it ruins Spiderman and Iron-Man, but works better in something like Thor where operatic drama is needed in between to be more compelling.

4. Brubaker is a good writer especially at noir comics but he is awful at superheroes. Marvel just hasn't given him a noir-flavored hero to work with yet. Give him Punisher or Hawkeye or SHIELD. Heck does Marvel have any private detectives he could write?

[Frank]

Writers these days are too obsessed by making things realistic with every people talking the same way and it becomes an overall blandess that they thrive for.