Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

[USERNAME TAKEN]

The Assassin's Guild shows up in Scarlet Spider #3 for about the most plausible reason possible: an assassination! From that point, we get some insight into their relationship with Kaine that Yost builds on in a big way in SS4. And the setup for something even bigger down the road.

That's the way I read it.

And it made perfect sense to me.

[Mark_S]

It certainly couldn't hurt. Of course some of the franchise books really need to be cancelled. We don't really need a dozen x-men books a month, especially when half the time they are just being used to tell the boring sections of whatever the newest X-event is. Same goes for the other franchises too. The worst offender is Avengers & New Avengers. Two Avengers books, zero level of specific content & constant crossings between the two. An already its been re co-opted for an event. We just got out of an event like that & i have no doubt within 3 to 4 months of this event ending, we'll have the books co-opted for the Ultron event.

so yes, i think its time for Marvels books to stand or fall under there own power. Because the franchises as they exist, seem to be this house of cards: Pull out one of these cards & the rest comes crashing down. The books need to be seperated out, by both narrative & distance.

There is also the franchisement of characters. How many version of Hulk are there after all? I'm still expecting Plaid Hulk to show up at some point and battle Purple Spiderman.

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

What happens if we don't do any of this?

SW

Dangerous things as illustrated here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsMc-IswG3w

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

Ha. That's funny. Overly dramatic too. You fit right in.

Anyway, your pet term is just something someone made up for literary classes. It's not something writers really stress about. Just dilettantes for the most part.

Also You keep mentioning something, so just to address it ....I want to make it clear that I'm not all worried about your lack of faith. I don't think your rigid thinking leads to good stories. So you can stop trying to convince me I need to earn your "faith"

SW

But does completely ignoring past events and characterization lead to good stories or just stories that make a big splash and sell well? There can be a difference. When it comes down to it is your job to ok stories that are good, stories that are good and will sell or stories that are good and will sell and respect what has come before? In the pages I posted earlier at the time of it being written it was beyond any chance that Sue would have an affair with Luke Cage but now? Despite the fact that it's been shown time and again that Sue loves Reed and that Reed loves Sue to the exclusion of all else I get the feeling that if a writer could come up with a really flashy and event level story with Sue having an affair with Luke or Reed with say She-Hulk you'd give it the go no matter what the history of the characters. If I'm wrong in this I'm sorry but that is the impression I got from your post.

Mark_S

[Spaced]

Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

Right now I suppose for me it's worse as I read so few of them. I hear things about certain titles being great but they're either characters who I've never had any interest in or by creators whose previous work I haven't particularly liked. Honestly don't know what it'd take to get me back on board like I used to be (20+ books a month) but who knows? Some post-AvX creative team changes might bring me back to some old favourites (was a solid Cap & Iron Man buyer for 25+ years but lost interest under the current creative teams).

[Mark_S]

Whats killing it is pricing and availability. Comics were far cheaper relative to peoples incomes back then. Even back in the 80's. Dating myself here but when I started reading comics they were sixty cents each and minimum wage was $3.35 an hour. So I could buy 5 comics for one hours work. Video games were just starting to appear in the form of Ataris and home computers pretty much didn't exist. So there weren't a lot of other things for kids to spend their money on.

Today minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. With that you can buy two comics so long as only one of them is $3.99 Marvel one. So the purchasing power of a kid has gone from five comics to two comics for the same amount of work. Kids have so many other things nowadays competing for their dollars.

Add to that the industry has made it very hard to actually buy comics. When I was a kid growing up in a town of 1000 people I could buy comics at five different places. Today if I was growing up in that same town I'd have to drive 70 miles to the nearest comic shop or get a subscription but who is going to get a subscription to a comic when they never had a chance to even sample one because they've never seen one at a store to thumb through? It would be like subscribing to any magazine sight unseen without any idea of the content.

There are no simple solutions to this because while I don't believe $3.99 pricing was necessary yet I do believe $2.99 is probably close to the minimum it can be and even that though is too high to ever attract kids.

Pricing is a major problem with a gallon of gas costing as much as one comic. But as I pointed out earlier the store that I started collecting in isn't there, newstands aren't there anymore. There have been no real inroads into supermarkets or other venues, it's a comic book store or nothing. They haven't even made a push to put the comic books in theaters despite all of the comic book movies out.

Mark_S

[CyberHubbs]

Pricing is a major problem with a gallon of gas costing as much as one comic. But as I pointed out earlier the store that I started collecting in isn't there, newstands aren't there anymore. There have been no real inroads into supermarkets or other venues, it's a comic book store or nothing. They haven't even made a push to put the comic books in theaters despite all of the comic book movies out.

Mark_S

You can order your books from several online stores, and often at a hefty discount.

Not to mention bookstores.

[stephen wacker]

But does completely ignoring past events and characterization lead to good stories or just stories that make a big splash and sell well?

I don't think those ideas are connected. We don't hink like that. That's a fan reaction type of concern.

Good ideas, good writing adf good art lead to good comic stories basically. All the other attempts to impose rules on creativity don't interest me too much.

SW

[Jim Schnobrich]

I haven't read the entire thread so I apologize if I'm rehashing old points but I started reading comics in the early 90s and, to me, Marvel books are significantly better these days than they were. So, who's right then? Someone who feels the books were better when he started reading them in the 70s or 80s or someone who thinks they are better now than he he was first reading them in the 90s? Probably neither.

[Chiasm]

You can order your books from several online stores, and often at a hefty discount.

Not to mention bookstores.

And that works great for EXISTING fans. But what about the 15 yr old kid who just saw Avengers and thinks he might be interested in comics but there are no places he can buy comics. Is he gonna hunk down $30 or whatever it costs for a subscription on something he's never tried and isn't sure he would actually like. I'm dubious that you'll find many kids even willing to lay down $3.99 for one issue let alone $30. And then those few who do get a subscription end up getting a whole bunch of Avengers vs X-men tie in issues that don't make a lot of sense without the event. They get very frustrated because they can't get the actual event book on subscription so they say screw it and don't renew, especially once they realize that due to the massive event cycle they aren't going to be able to collect just Avengers if they want to ever be able to read a coherent story.

[Chiasm]

I haven't read the entire thread so I apologize if I'm rehashing old points but I started reading comics in the early 90s and, to me, Marvel books are significantly better these days than they were. So, who's right then? Someone who feels the books were better when he started reading them in the 70s or 80s or someone who thinks they are better now than he he was first reading them in the 90s? Probably neither.

The 90's have come up a few times. I'll reiterate what I said earlier. There was a lot of crap that came out in the 90's as every company was pushing out as many books as they possibly could which led to a lot of mediocre writers and artists getting work. But there was also lot of greatness in the 90's as well. In fact IMO the great stuff of the 90's is far better than anything being put out today, you just had to sort through a lot of crap to find it.

[Mark_S]

I don't think those ideas are connected. We don't hink like that. That's a fan reaction type of concern.

Good ideas, good writing adf good art lead to good comic stories basically. All the other attempts to impose rules on creativity don't interest me too much.

SW

Then do you consider the past history of a character and their past behavior a restriction? If a good story can only be told by contradicting what has come before does it get the go ahead anyway?

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

You can order your books from several online stores, and often at a hefty discount.

Not to mention bookstores.

Bookstores maybe, buying things online can be dangerous. I've done it but not without trepidation.

Mark_S

[CyberHubbs]

And that works great for EXISTING fans. But what about the 15 yr old kid who just saw Avengers and thinks he might be interested in comics but there are no places he can buy comics. Is he gonna hunk down $30 or whatever it costs for a subscription on something he's never tried and isn't sure he would actually like. I'm dubious that you'll find many kids even willing to lay down $3.99 for one issue let alone $30. And then those few who do get a subscription end up getting a whole bunch of Avengers vs X-men tie in issues that don't make a lot of sense without the event. They get very frustrated because they can't get the actual event book on subscription so they say screw it and don't renew, especially once they realize that due to the massive event cycle they aren't going to be able to collect just Avengers if they want to ever be able to read a coherent story.

He can buy digitally, or just stop in at a bookstore. Barnes & Noble, at least the one near me, sells floppies in the magazine section.

But since a 15 year old probably knows how to use a computer and the internet better than I can, I'm sure he can find a way to order online and get that discount.

Children are not helpless.

[Mark_S]

The 90's have come up a few times. I'll reiterate what I said earlier. There was a lot of crap that came out in the 90's as every company was pushing out as many books as they possibly could which led to a lot of mediocre writers and artists getting work. But there was also lot of greatness in the 90's as well. In fact IMO the great stuff of the 90's is far better than anything being put out today, you just had to sort through a lot of crap to find it.

I remember the 90's mostly for those reflective covers on everything.

Mark_S