Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

[Chiasm]

A caveat on my opinion: I quit most Marvel books sometime in 2010 over $3.99 pricing. In 2011 I was mostly limited to Annihilators and X-men Legacy and those I quit because one ended and the other because Mike Carey left and it felt like a good place to quit. In the last six months I've bought exactly two Marvel comics: the first two issues of Avengers vs X-men and I found them horrifically bad and I won't be buying more of them. "Before that I was a 25 year plus Marvel reader who devoured anything X-related and a lot of other Marvel stuff too. So my opinion may be slightly dated circa 2010 based on full reading and the rest based on what I perceive from reading message boards but given my history with Marvel I feel qualified to give my opinion as a fan.

To me Marvel has gotten far worse though its understandable why. Innovation is gone and everything is about chasing any dollar they can. You can see that in the regression of Spiderman by erasing the marriage in an attempt to return Spidey to the days of old. You can see it in that Marvel really only seems to be focusing on Avengers or X-men books (since Spidey is an Avenger I'm throwing him under the bus with them). You can see it in that by the fact that they basically are trying to relive old glory by resurrecting past great storylines like Dark Phoenix in the new event. You can see it in the fact that Marvel (and DC so don't bother calling me a DC fanboy . . . I may read more DC currently but I will always be a Marvel fan at heart) is in a constant cycle now of renumbering and gimmicks.

I don't blame them really. Given the current state of comics it only makes sense for the companies to run gimmick after gimmick and to use events to try and drum up sales. If I was in charge I'd probably be doing the same thing . . . . . though hopefully with a slight bit more respect for continuity . . . . .seriously would it have been so hard for Tony in Avengers vs X-men #1 to say something to the effect of (only more eloquently than I'm putting it) "There have been some occasional Phoenix related incidents since the original Phoenix event but this is the real deal" . . . . . it would have acknowledged things like Rachel Summers, Jean Grey the 2nd time around, Madelyne Pryor, the Cuckoos, etc but wouldn't have burdened the current storyline. Two or three little lines but the architect schmarchitects couldn't be bothered apparently. Anyway, my point is that Marvel is obviously in desperation mode as is DC by pulling out all the stops on gimmicks and you can't blame them but at the same time it is at the sacrifice of innovation and quality. Long gone are the days of the slow build storyline that develops into something special (the original Dark Phoenix story which took place over 30 issues and 5-6 years considering Uncanny X-men was bi-monthly much of this time) and now its the quick gimmick with less than a years development.

[CyberHubbs]

At least we all agree that comics will still be around in 2032.

[stephen wacker]

How does narrative causality get "off"?

I'll go one better...what is it?

SW

[Ian Pressman]

Marvel should just admit to being a multimedia company over a comics one, and cut back on all the redundant series in favor of a few core titles, with a smaller staff. That would guarantee a higher quality of writing at a lower cost to the consumer. Comics are supposed to be disposable entertainment, but you wouldn't know that from the cover prices we have to put up with.

[CyberHubbs]

I'll go one better...what is it?

SW

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ativeCausality

Never heard of it before, but I can kinda see what they mean. Just not sure how it can be 'off'.

Yeah, Aracely(?) would have died without Kaine. But she would have also never existed. So kind of a moot point.

[CyberHubbs]

Marvel should just admit to being a multimedia company over a comics one, and cut back on all the redundant series in favor of a few core titles, with a smaller staff. That would guarantee a higher quality of writing at a lower cost to the consumer. Comics are supposed to be disposable entertainment, but you wouldn't know that from the cover prices we have to put up with.

Isn't it already that? Or are they trying to hide the movies from us?

[PwrdOff]

At least we all agree that comics will still be around in 2032.

Don't be so sure about that. 20 years ago, comics were selling millions of copies, people were just getting used to the Cold War being over, and if you asked someone what the internet was, they'd probably say something about the webbing inside their swim trunks. Who knows what the world will be like in another 20 years, especially with the accelerating pace of technology and the resulting loss in attention span for most folks. And don't forget the million different ways the world is supposed to end in that time frame. I'm sure the concept of drawing pictures of people that tell some sort of story will still be around, but that says nothing about printed serials, superheroes, and certainly not Marvel.

[stephen wacker]

Marvel should just admit to being a multimedia company over a comics one, and cut back on all the redundant series in favor of a few core titles, with a smaller staff. That would guarantee a higher quality of writing at a lower cost to the consumer. Comics are supposed to be disposable entertainment, but you wouldn't know that from the cover prices we have to put up with.

Marvel has admitted to being a Multimedia entertainment company for many years.

As for the rest I'm not clear why/how the #1 comic book company is secretly failing and needs to dramatically cut back on what we're doing. You people have funny theories.

SW

[stephen wacker]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ativeCausality

Never heard of it before, but I can kinda see what they mean. Just not sure how it can be 'off'.

Yeah, Aracely(?) would have died without Kaine. But she would have also never existed. So kind of a moot point.

No offense to whoever posted about it, but I'm not about to make my writers beholden to some arbitrary writing rules on TV Tropes.

SW

[CyberHubbs]

Don't be so sure about that. 20 years ago, comics were selling millions of copies, people were just getting used to the Cold War being over, and if you asked someone what the internet was, they'd probably say something about the webbing inside their swim trunks. Who knows what the world will be like in another 20 years, especially with the accelerating pace of technology and the resulting loss in attention span for most folks. And don't forget the million different ways the world is supposed to end in that time frame. I'm sure the concept of drawing pictures of people that tell some sort of story will still be around, but that says nothing about printed serials, superheroes, and certainly not Marvel.

I don't know about millions of copies. X-Men #1 did it, and I believe McFarlane's Adjectiveless Spider-Man, buuuutttt...

[Bernoulli]

In dan slotts spiderman the thing have still got his accent. I guess it doesnt depend on marvel, its more in the favour of the writer.

[PwrdOff]

I don't know about millions of copies. X-Men #1 did it, and I believe McFarlane's Adjectiveless Spider-Man, buuuutttt...

I think X-Force #1 sold 5 million copies or so, probably cause of Liefeld and his mastery of human anatomy.

[RDMacQ]

It always does. I guarantee there will be a "KellyWarrior Princess" in 2032 lamenting that comics aren't as great as they were in 2012.

SW

And there will probably be a "Stephen Wacker" in 2032 calling people who voice a critical opinion as "angry" or "crazy" as well.

[RDMacQ]

No offense to whoever posted about it, but I'm not about to make my writers beholden to some arbitrary writing rules on TV Tropes.

SW

It's not about writers being beholded to these rules on TV Tropes. It's that this aspect is something that various works tend to fall victim to from time to time.

A writer can try to avoid it, but they may end up creating a story that fits this criteria. It's done to shown common narrative elements, not a critical tool.

[mikekerrIII]

Marvel should just admit to being a multimedia company over a comics one, and cut back on all the redundant series in favor of a few core titles, with a smaller staff. That would guarantee a higher quality of writing at a lower cost to the consumer. Comics are supposed to be disposable entertainment, but you wouldn't know that from the cover prices we have to put up with.

Why cut back on books that make a reasonable profit margin and allow them to retain the IP rights? the last Time Marvel published a financial statement before the purchase PUBLISHING showed thirty percent Net profit (BTW that is a fantastic net margin, so they do know when to keep and drop books.

And how would getting rid of books help the Quality of writing to people who prefer Gage and Gillen to Bendis and Fraction? They should publish as many books as they can make a profit on. That's good for them and good for the customers since it provides more choices.

I may agree with the editorial decision on characters, what is moral, and plots but they seem to be nailing the business parts of the equation