Have Marvel comics changed for the better or worse?

[RDMacQ]

Readers should probably decide whether or not they want "editorially driven" comics or not. it seems to change hourly. Even from the same people. Editors should have a strong hand... except they should never tell a creator what to do!

Yeah!

I mean, one fan states that he or she likes editorially driven comics.

Then, ANOTHER fan, who is probably an entirely different person with their own likes and dislikes SEPARATE from the first or any OTHER fans, states that he or she DOESN'T like editorially driven comics.

It's like fans are this group of people with their own individual identities and opinions, instead of one massive hive mind entity!

CAN'T FANS MAKE UP THEIR MIND!?!?!?!?!?!

It's such a CONFUSING situation, in which I mean it's a completely made up complaint for a non-existing problem.

[timeismoney]

The thing is you can't pleas everybody some people Love what DC did with the New 52 and other hate it, all you can do is pray more like it than hate. And i say by what ever AVX bring after it some will love it some will hate. But the one thing people forget is that so many people is writing these character that not every thing is going to line up. Back in the day Chris was the only writer of the X Men now there is about 12 X books in most character appear in more than one.

[Grapeweasel]

Many seem happy.

I envy them.

[stephen wacker]

well the comics may suck, but at least theirs the movies. They can burn their comics line for all I care, its clear these so called Architects are only using Marvel to fund their own projects.

TOTALLY! Everyone working on the books secretly despises them! Maybe they're indifferent at best!

It never used to be like this! Back in the day I don't remember fans/readers complaining about ANYTHING!

It's a weird coincidence they found a bunch of creators/editors who hate the books and characters as much as they do. I smell conspiracy.

SW

[timeismoney]

That is what i like about the MU Magneto said it best in Magneto Not a hero, its not about hero and villain it is about what he want. And if you look at it from real world terms it is some what true. I find clear cut hero's to be some what boring, i like the hero that will go to the edge to what has to be done. Because that has to be sometimes. Oh and welcome back Stephen just when they felt safe LOL.

[The Black Guardian]

There are still oases of good writing, you just have to search through a desert of mediocrity to find them.

Read books by:
Jeff Parker
Dan Slott
Cullen Bunn
Rick Remender (except for his Captain Britain)
Christopher Yost
Kieron Gillen

I agree with your general sentiment, though. The quality of writing has declined in the past two decades.

Funny you say that because I think Gillen and Remender are two of the biggest violators of this. It's not just Cap Brit that Remender has problems with. Every character he writes has these problems. His Psylocke is horrible. His Angel was horrible. His Hawkeye is disgusting.

Anyway, two recent jarringly wrong voices for characters were Storm saying, "God help us" in AvX and Magma saying, "Mother of God" in the upcoming JIM.

[Corey W]

My view is that all eras have a mix of great, good, average and bad and we tend to forget the average and bad, unless it is so bad that it characterizes the era (see 1990s, then we forget the good).

For example, the early 60s is best rememberred for the terrific Spidey and FF runs, but Cap was virtually unreadable, the X-Men were actually unreadble, and IM was pretty up and down.

The 90s are remembered for belts, pockets, BIG guns, every character having swords or claws, Liefeld, and glossy covers. But there was also Marvels, Kingdom Come, Byrne's WCA, Waid's Cap, and the good stories that came out of Heroes Return including Busiek's Avengers.

The past ten years at Marvel has certainly seen out of character writing, writing for trade, lazy continuity, and character regression, but it has also seen Young Avengers, Runaways (BKV and Whedon), Annihilation & Annihilation Conquest, Guadians of the Galaxy, Pak's Hulk, Slott's She-Hulk, Brubaker's Cap, Alias, Agents of Atlas, Captain Britain & MI:13, Bendis's Daredevil, Ultimate Spider-man, Spider-girl, Brubaker's Daredevil, several great Thunderbolts runs, Ennis's Punisher, Hickman's FF, Waid's FF, Ultimates I and II, JMS's Thor, Gillen's Thor/JIM, Waid's DD, Waid's Man Out of Time, Brubaker's Marvels Project, Planet X, Gaiman's 1602, Fraction/Aja's Iron Fist, etc.

I am positive that I am missing a bunch of books that virtually everyone loved, and I am leaving out many popular works such as Bendis's Avengers, everything Mark Millar did, everything by Jeph Loeb (including the excellent Fallen Son), any of the Big Events, anything that has happened in the X-lines, or anything in Spider-man since JMS took over Amazing. Even at that, the series I listed above would have averaged well about 1.5 good Marvel comics per week to read over a ten year stretch. That is pretty good.

So, while there has been some very, very bad at Marvel. There has also been a lot of really, really good. I think the quality is highin recent years and while I don't read every book, and may be reading fewer now than a few years ago, I am enjoying the ones that I do read.

[RDMacQ]

My view is that all eras have a mix of great, good, average and bad and we tend to forget the average and bad, unless it is so bad that it characterizes the era (see 1990s, then we forget the good).

For example, the early 60s is best rememberred for the terrific Spidey and FF runs, but Cap was virtually unreadable, the X-Men were actually unreadble, and IM was pretty up and down.

The 90s are remembered for belts, pockets, BIG guns, every character having swords or claws, Liefeld, and glossy covers. But there was also Marvels, Kingdom Come, Byrne's WCA, Waid's Cap, and the good stories that came out of Heroes Return including Busiek's Avengers.

The past ten years at Marvel has certainly seen out of character writing, writing for trade, lazy continuity, and character regression, but it has also seen Young Avengers, Runaways (BKV and Whedon), Annihilation & Annihilation Conquest, Guadians of the Galaxy, Pak's Hulk, Slott's She-Hulk, Brubaker's Cap, Alias, Agents of Atlas, Captain Britain & MI:13, Bendis's Daredevil, Ultimate Spider-man, Spider-girl, Brubaker's Daredevil, several great Thunderbolts runs, Ennis's Punisher, Hickman's FF, Waid's FF, Ultimates I and II, JMS's Thor, Gillen's Thor/JIM, Waid's DD, Waid's Man Out of Time, Brubaker's Marvels Project, Planet X, Gaiman's 1602, Fraction/Aja's Iron Fist, etc.

I am positive that I am missing a bunch of books that virtually everyone loved, and I am leaving out many popular works such as Bendis's Avengers, everything Mark Millar did, everything by Jeph Loeb (including the excellent Fallen Son), any of the Big Events, anything that has happened in the X-lines, or anything in Spider-man since JMS took over Amazing. Even at that, the series I listed above would have averaged well about 1.5 good Marvel comics per week to read over a ten year stretch. That is pretty good.

So, while there has been some very, very bad at Marvel. There has also been a lot of really, really good. I think the quality is highin recent years and while I don't read every book, and may be reading fewer now than a few years ago, I am enjoying the ones that I do read.

Like the saying goes- it's the best of times, it's the worst of times (paraphrasing here). And that could pretty much be said of any time period at Marvel.

[afropolo]

Right now Marvel seems to be printing it's own money. From an artistic/creative standpoint they seem to be a bit behind DC and WAY behind Indie publishers. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Marvelite and Daredevil, X-factor, Journey into Mystery, and X-force rarely disappoint me. I just feel like DC has the creative upper hand with titles like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, I,Vampire, Batwing, Birds of Prey, and of course the mighty quartet (Bruce, Clark, Diana, and Hal) swinging and taking names. Creatively Marvel are not as strong as they could be. AvX is FUN, but not an artistic revelation.

[stephen wacker]

Right now Marvel seems to be printing it's own money. From an artistic/creative standpoint they seem to be a bit behind DC and WAY behind Indie publishers. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Marvelite and Daredevil, X-factor, Journey into Mystery, and X-force rarely disappoint me. I just feel like DC has the creative upper hand with titles like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, I,Vampire, Batwing, Birds of Prey, and of course the mighty quartet (Bruce, Clark, Diana, and Hal) swinging and taking names. Creatively Marvel are not as strong as they could be. AvX is FUN, but not an artistic revelation.

I felt like that when I was a reader well back in the 80s and 90s.

What's important is that you're finding books you like. Overall the market seems to prefer Marvel books, but there's room for everyone right now. Hopefully the market will keep growing after a rough couple years.

SW

[timeismoney]

For me Marvel has had bad work and good work, but most of these thread that are made about Marvel i feel come from them being on top. And people have this right i'm not trying to stop or bash that, you don't take shots at the the guy in second, third and be low like i said before people always say remember when Marvel was good 20 years ago that is find i remember when like i said gas was 98 cent but it don't help now.

[timeismoney]

Right now Marvel seems to be printing it's own money. From an artistic/creative standpoint they seem to be a bit behind DC and WAY behind Indie publishers. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Marvelite and Daredevil, X-factor, Journey into Mystery, and X-force rarely disappoint me. I just feel like DC has the creative upper hand with titles like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, I,Vampire, Batwing, Birds of Prey, and of course the mighty quartet (Bruce, Clark, Diana, and Hal) swinging and taking names. Creatively Marvel are not as strong as they could be. AvX is FUN, but not an artistic revelation.

Strange I feel different Marvel has the best artist and writer in the business right now sure DC has some good books but Marvel right now for me is just better but as with any thing this is all objective and subjective. And as far as art goes Marvel Ultimate line has the best art of any books out there.

[Corey W]

Right now Marvel seems to be printing it's own money. From an artistic/creative standpoint they seem to be a bit behind DC and WAY behind Indie publishers. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Marvelite and Daredevil, X-factor, Journey into Mystery, and X-force rarely disappoint me. I just feel like DC has the creative upper hand with titles like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, I,Vampire, Batwing, Birds of Prey, and of course the mighty quartet (Bruce, Clark, Diana, and Hal) swinging and taking names. Creatively Marvel are not as strong as they could be. AvX is FUN, but not an artistic revelation.

I don't disagree with this. But I also think that the independents have an inherent creative advantage being less linked to continuity, prior (and well-known) characterizations, and the need to preserve the property. At Marvel & DC, there are a lot of issues that have to be considered in addition to "The Story". Which is fine, because the interlocking universe and the continuity of the characters are some of the things that many fans love and we wouldn't want to see them abandoned. But they are also the reasons that Watchmen could never have been written as an in continuity Avengers story and V is for Vendetta could not be a Spider-woman arc.

DC does seem to have the edge at the moment, but three years ago I would have said Marvel had it and I expect that pendulum to shift back and forth. Right now, Marvel has a couple of long and very important runs on big properties that seem to be winding down. I guess that we will have to see where they go next.

[vh4ever]

Right now Marvel seems to be printing it's own money. From an artistic/creative standpoint they seem to be a bit behind DC and WAY behind Indie publishers. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Marvelite and Daredevil, X-factor, Journey into Mystery, and X-force rarely disappoint me. I just feel like DC has the creative upper hand with titles like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, I,Vampire, Batwing, Birds of Prey, and of course the mighty quartet (Bruce, Clark, Diana, and Hal) swinging and taking names. Creatively Marvel are not as strong as they could be. AvX is FUN, but not an artistic revelation.

Because DC has gone all in on their line of DIVERSE titles, some will stay, some will fade, Marvel has three main camps: Spider, Avenger, and X-Title. Their remaining books crosspollenate with one (or more) of those. Kinda boring. Not that DC is blazing a trail, but they're doing a better job of reaching out to that niche reader or that *gasp* elusive 'new' reader than Marvel is with its 7 X-Titles.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Right now Marvel seems to be printing it's own money. From an artistic/creative standpoint they seem to be a bit behind DC and WAY behind Indie publishers. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Marvelite and Daredevil, X-factor, Journey into Mystery, and X-force rarely disappoint me. I just feel like DC has the creative upper hand with titles like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, I,Vampire, Batwing, Birds of Prey, and of course the mighty quartet (Bruce, Clark, Diana, and Hal) swinging and taking names. Creatively Marvel are not as strong as they could be. AvX is FUN, but not an artistic revelation.

Amen. DC is taking risks with their characters. I've got high hopes for Dial H, as it seems as though DC's hitting their universe with the Vertigo stick.
AvX just isn't a risk. It was a pure cash ploy cooked up in reaction to DC's New 52, and that's led to some contrived and lazy storytelling. And that's the rub of it, in my opinion. With the exception of Waid and Rucka, there's some creative laziness going on at Marvel.