Superman and technology

[Adrian Tullberg]

Given human nature to develop, create and utilise tools and technology, what sort of technology should Superman create and employ, or should his achievements be limited to his own purely physical and mental efforts?

[Desaad]

I think one of the core elements of Superman is his role as a Man of Tomorrow, and so I think technology should come into play in at least some of the stories we get, but I think it has to be done right, and I don't think Superman needs to be building future tech for anyone.

For me, Superman is this last bastion of the old world morals in the the chassis of the Future Man, and as such it's his job to bring to mankind all the benefits of an advanced society while protecting it from the incidental evils that arise from rapid, sudden development.

He should be trying to disseminate nuclear power but stopping the nuclear bomb, to couch it in 20th century terms. Fighting Lex Luthor while encouraging John Henry Irons. Ripping apart giant evil robots while stopping corporations from stealing and owning the patents on life saving robot surgeons.

I don't think it's his role to build. I think it's his role to protect, and encourage.

I think the building has to come from humanity itself.

[Superlad93]

Given human nature to develop, create and utilise tools and technology, what sort of technology should Superman create and employ, or should his achievements be limited to his own purely physical and mental efforts?

To tell you the truth I still see him as a big science hero sorta like Tom Strong, who used tech but he never made it a substitute for his two fist. I think Superman should feel the same in some regards. Like how in All-star Superman #7 the where he as trying to get off the cube earth and he builds a "single shot ion pulse engine from garbage". I should be in fort Superman working on pet science projects all the time. He's a scientist son if most of use forgot, and he also has at least an 8th level mind (Action comics #5 and #8)

With all that said I do however think that Superman should opt to do things with his hands more of the time just because of how he was raised as a farmers son with a real belief in the working man.

I mainly think there should be a harmony between these two sides of one man

[ascended]

Im basically with Desaad and Superlad here.

Superman is one smart mutha. His father was the smartest man on his homeworld, and Krypton was so far ahead of us they might as well have been using magic. The population would therefore be a lot smarter than us in general, and Clark is the son of their brightest mind? Clark aint no mindless jock.

But he also is a firm believer in hard work and getting your hands dirty. He's got that old school frame of mind where he'd rather do the work himself.

I do think he should utilize advanced tech in his day to day battles for truth and justice. If his suit can hack into emergency communication channels, then Superman can alert the authorities of problems. He can let the cops know where the problems are, how many people need medical attention, what sort of danger there could be, if any harmful elements are present, and all that, before the cops would otherwise even know there is a disturbance. And Clark is like the king of multi-tasking. He can do all this while he swoops in to deal with the threat without wasting more than the few seconds he spares slowing down the less than supersonic speeds. That sort of thing saves lives and time. And Superman should be all about efficiency.

Should he share his tech? No. We're seeing what sudden leaps in technological advancement can do to society right now. Imagine how much worse it would be with Kryptonian tech suddenly out there? No, humanity has its own path to forge and that does not include getting free stuff from dead cultures.

That said though, I think the last thing Superman ever does for humanity should be to send the basic foundation of Kryptonian science to every single computer on earth. Make it so that the nations of the world will have to work together to decode it all. It could take decades upon decades for us to understand the basic principals, and by that time, maybe we will have been working towards that common goal for so long we will forget that we're normally killing each other. That could be his last, greatest gift to humanity. I think that would be fitting.

[Superlad93]

That said though, I think the last thing Superman ever does for humanity should be to send the basic foundation of Kryptonian science to every single computer on earth. Make it so that the nations of the world will have to work together to decode it all. It could take decades upon decades for us to understand the basic principals, and by that time, maybe we will have been working towards that common goal for so long we will forget that we're normally killing each other. That could be his last, greatest gift to humanity. I think that would be fitting.

Yea man that's cool sorta like All-star and his final gift to humanity: his genetic code. But what you're purposing is something that would take the collective knowledge of the world a thousands of years, maybe longer, to understand even the small basics of. This is just perfect for him. Sorta constantly playing the father/big brother role to the world till the end.

[Celestin]

He's a scientist son if most of use forgot, and he also has at least an 8th level mind (Action comics #5 and #8)

I have a question about it. I know that Brainiac is 10th level mind, but are there any info about other species or characters? Or did any writer actually explained how advanced you need to be to have different levels?

[Superlad93]

I have a question about it. I know that Brainiac is 10th level mind, but are there any info about other species or characters? Or did any writer actually explained how advanced you need to be to have different levels?

Well humans are 3d level and with the influence of Superman and the coming of the concept of the superhero because of him (Superman the seed of krypton) they now have the potential to be 4th level.

Though nothing on other species is given, we can assume 8th is very high because they were the most advanced in the galaxy and is known through out the universe.

Hope this helped.

[adkal]

I pretty much agree with everything that's been posted by 'ascended', 'superlad93' and 'Desaad'.

I think, though, that, for the most part, the tech he develops and uses (other than mainline comms tech, etc) would be more geared to discovery and learning.

He could, for example, develop a viewer which allows him to observe the Omega Effect energies which could, in turn, lead to a greater understanding of Darkseid (information he would willingly share with Orion). (Sure would have come in helpful with the 'Bruce Wayne Incident' ;) )

He should also know and understand the weapons utilised across the multiverse - not for development but to put an end to their use against innocents quickly. For example, if Mongul pulls out a gun made of a materials which give Kal's strength and heat vision some issues he should still be able to neutralise it quickly by removing key parts...before Mongul even knows he's done so!

[Desaad]

I pretty much agree with everything that's been posted by 'ascended', 'superlad93' and 'Desaad'.

I think, though, that, for the most part, the tech he develops and uses (other than mainline comms tech, etc) would be more geared to discovery and learning.

He could, for example, develop a viewer which allows him to observe the Omega Effect energies which could, in turn, lead to a greater understanding of Darkseid (information he would willingly share with Orion). (Sure would have come in helpful with the 'Bruce Wayne Incident' ;) )

I really don't think that Superman, on any level, would be able to teach Orion - or any of the NEw Gods - anythign about the Omega Effect. Kryptonian technology may be something else, but it's nowhere near the level of New God technology.

Anyway, I think it's a mistake and a titch dangerous to focus too much on Superman's inventor intellect. He's got a supporting cast for that. Make him CANNY, smart in the way that he comes up with solutions to problems, rather than building super suits of this or that. That way you can have a little more interaction with guys like John Henry Irons.

[Jon Clark]

Kind of on the fence here.

The OP description sounds more like Batman or iron man than Superman to me. I prefer Superman to be largely self-contained and not needing some external tech to solve most problems. I don't want to read about Iron Man or Batman from Krypton. I want to read about someone with powers and abilities beyond the ability of technology to replicate.

With tech in comics you run the risk of upsetting the balance. Either you create stuff that somehow has no effect on the world going forward or you alter the world to the point it is too different. I know some suspension of disbelief is required, but after a while you wonder why the Jimmy Olsen's of the world still drive the same cars as us, watch the same TV's, etc in a world where heroes and villians regularly run into powered armor, artificial intelligence, etc. You'd think by now at least some of that super-tech would be reverse engineered to improve the daily life of the average joe. And tossing in a Superman with the ability to develop 30th century tech on the fly is just a bit too far not to break my ability to ignore the question.

And then there's Luthor. The whole Lex vs Kal thing loses something if the it's a battle between two equal intellects except that Kal has all his powers as well. Adding a genius IQ onto all his other powers makes Superman seem TOO impressive. He's Lex or Bruce with superpowers. Just one more way the JLA is sort of Superman's sidekicks where he is their equal or superior at every step.

But on the other hand- I hate the way Clark was often presented as just an average joe from Krypton whose main contribution was to out muscle every threat. And I do miss some of the Silver-age tech like the robots which don't feel the same if they are creations of Steel or Emil Hamilton.

[adkal]

I really don't think that Superman, on any level, would be able to teach Orion - or any of the NEw Gods - anythign about the Omega Effect. Kryptonian technology may be something else, but it's nowhere near the level of New God technology.

You misunderstand - it's not a case of 'teaching' but 'observing'.

Observing various occasions Darkseid used it, on whom and what happened.

For example, a young Darkseid may have used it on a slave girl, 'just because' (something he wouldn't do now), and bringing something like that up as a psychological attack is a possibility. An incident no one saw and no one knew about until Orion punches his father as he mentions it...

The only New God who could probably do it without tech-enhancement is Highfather (and, I guess, Takion, if he's still around).

Anyway, I think it's a mistake and a titch dangerous to focus too much on Superman's inventor intellect. He's got a supporting cast for that. Make him CANNY, smart in the way that he comes up with solutions to problems, rather than building super suits of this or that. That way you can have a little more interaction with guys like John Henry Irons.

No super-suits unless John Henry gives him one (although a red sun one is allowable, surely :p ).

I don't see anything wrong with Kal developing technology that helps him understand...more. Granted, he can already see, hear and appreciate things we can't but I think he can do more without getting lost in it and without it negating John Henry et al -they don't need to know about the gravity buffers he designed to nullify the effects of a baby sun-eater on Earth, for example, or the Chronoscope he's been fiddling around with.

[Desaad]

You misunderstand - it's not a case of 'teaching' but 'observing'.

No, I haven't; you're saying that Superman would then 'share' the information with Orion and co, implying that he will somehow have more knowledge about Darkseid than an entire pantheon of living ideas dedicated to stopping him.

Superman doesn't need to go encroaching on other peoples' mythology; he's got plenty of his own to play with. And the New Gods have been, as a group, pilferred too much over the years. It continues, I'm sad to say, in Johns' Justice League.



[quote]The only New God who could probably do it without tech-enhancement is Highfather (and, I guess, Takion, if he's still around).

I don't think we have at all similar opinions on what the New Gods are, and what they represent. That you think Orion is just 'punching' stuff, or that you're separating 'tech' from their own innate, platonic, noumenal abilities is I think wrong headed.

No super-suits unless John Henry gives him one (although a red sun one is allowable, surely :p ).

Sure, but I'd like it even more if John Henry had a hand in developing it!

The thing is, I don't think it demeans Superman to go for help with thigns like that --- I think it's part of his character. I think it's a little weak if he has to go see, say, BATMAN, but Lois, Jimmy, John Henry Irons, etc are all vital parts of his world and his mythology, and I think giving them powerful roles in his story is necessary for a more vital mini universe. If he needs detecting...well, he's a reporter himself, so I wouldn't mind him just figuring it out on his own, but if he's going to go to anyone for help, it should be Lois Lane, who is arguably his superior in investigative journalism, or Jimmy Olsen, who is on his way to developing into the greatest journalist in history (if I had my druthers, anyway).

I don't see anything wrong with Kal developing technology that helps him understand...more. Granted, he can already see, hear and appreciate things we can't but I think he can do more without getting lost in it and without it negating John Henry et al -they don't need to know about the gravity buffers he designed to nullify the effects of a baby sun-eater on Earth, for example, or the Chronoscope he's been fiddling around with.

I think he becomes a bit too 'one man army' if you go that route, myself. Because he exists in a greater context I think carving a space out for those characters is appropriate and additive. Once you go down the road of Superman doing this or that on his own, it inevitably begets the question why does he need anyone at all for anything other than entertainment/human connection? And at that point, whats the difference between his relationship with them and a man's relationship with a pet? I think there has to be a genuine exchange and addition for relationships to be meaningful. He should be learning something, and gaining something, from every relationship he has, just as they are gaining something for his presence.

I also don't think it's in his nature to go around plotting against villains. That seems to me more a thing Batman might want to do. But Superman is about protecting life and celebrating life, not using his free time to keep track of every threat on the planet obsessively.

[adkal]

No, I haven't; you're saying that Superman would then 'share' the information with Orion and co, implying that he will somehow have more knowledge about Darkseid than an entire pantheon of living ideas dedicated to stopping him.

Yes, he'd share such info with Orion because Orion is Darkseid's counterpoint, not Superman.

Most of the 'pantheon' know nothing about Darkseid (other than him being 'evil', a source of torment, and seeking the ALE) and, frankly, are more geared towards maintaining a status quo rather than actually stopping him - since the only one who can truly do that is Orion.

Superman doesn't need to go encroaching on other peoples' mythology; he's got plenty of his own to play with. And the New Gods have been, as a group, pilferred too much over the years. It continues, I'm sad to say, in Johns' Justice League.

You'll have no disagreement with me on that, but in a shared universe such as the DC one there will be overlaps.

I don't think we have at all similar opinions on what the New Gods are, and what they represent. That you think Orion is just 'punching' stuff, or that you're separating 'tech' from their own innate, platonic, noumenal abilities is I think wrong headed.

Orion is wholly different to the inhabitants of New Genesis. Although they love him and embrace him he's not one of them. He's the God of War and although his Motherbox, along with Highfather's teachings and the companionship of certain New Gods, helps to sooth aspects of him, he is, and remains, the God of War.

War isn't just physical, it's psychological, too.

And he will (and does) punch Darkseid.

Your understanding of the New Gods, however, is almost certainly better than my (limited) understanding of them.

Sure, but I'd like it even more if John Henry had a hand in developing it!


The thing is, I don't think it demeans Superman to go for help with thigns like that --- I think it's part of his character. I think it's a little weak if he has to go see, say, BATMAN, but Lois, Jimmy, John Henry Irons, etc are all vital parts of his world and his mythology, and I think giving them powerful roles in his story is necessary for a more vital mini universe. If he needs detecting...well, he's a reporter himself, so I wouldn't mind him just figuring it out on his own, but if he's going to go to anyone for help, it should be Lois Lane, who is arguably his superior in investigative journalism, or Jimmy Olsen, who is on his way to developing into the greatest journalist in history (if I had my druthers, anyway).

No argument from me on these points, either.

I think he becomes a bit too 'one man army' if you go that route, myself. Because he exists in a greater context I think carving a space out for those characters is appropriate and additive. Once you go down the road of Superman doing this or that on his own, it inevitably begets the question why does he need anyone at all for anything other than entertainment/human connection? And at that point, whats the difference between his relationship with them and a man's relationship with a pet? I think there has to be a genuine exchange and addition for relationships to be meaningful. He should be learning something, and gaining something, from every relationship he has, just as they are gaining something for his presence.

In what way? How does having and using analytical and observational technology make him a 'one man army'?

I also don't think it's in his nature to go around plotting against villains. That seems to me more a thing Batman might want to do. But Superman is about protecting life and celebrating life, not using his free time to keep track of every threat on the planet obsessively.

But it is in his nature to seek to understand and, having been blasted on numerous occasions by Darkseid, he would want to understand what those variable eye-blasts do.

It's along the same lines as him seeking a cure or protection against Kryptonite.

[Superlad93]

Yes, he'd share such info with Orion because Orion is Darkseid's counterpoint, not Superman.

Most of the 'pantheon' know nothing about Darkseid (other than him being 'evil', a source of torment, and seeking the ALE) and, frankly, are more geared towards maintaining a status quo rather than actually stopping him - since the only one who can truly do that is Orion.



You'll have no disagreement with me on that, but in a shared universe such as the DC one there will be overlaps.





Orion is wholly different to the inhabitants of New Genesis. Although they love him and embrace him he's not one of them. He's the God of War and although his Motherbox, along with Highfather's teachings and the companionship of certain New Gods, helps to sooth aspects of him, he is, and remains, the God of War.

War isn't just physical, it's psychological, too.

And he will (and does) punch Darkseid.

Your understanding of the New Gods, however, is almost certainly better than my (limited) understanding of them.




No argument from me on these points, either.





In what way? How does having and using analytical and observational technology make him a 'one man army'?



But it is in his nature to seek to understand and, having been blasted on numerous occasions by Darkseid, he would want to understand what those variable eye-blasts do.

It's along the same lines as him seeking a cure or protection against Kryptonite.

I see what both of you mean and if I may add my 2 cents in I'd like to say that Superman has far to much going for him that indicates that he would be a super genius in this new U alone. From the fact that he comes from a race of people who are at level 8 intelligence and his father is the smartest of them all. I mean even if he didn't grow up on krypton for the most part he is inherently super smart as show by Grants statement and depiction of the fact that even the babes on krypton are smart. All of that isn't even counting the extreme boost he gets from the yellow sun. His prepossessing speed and power go up ten fold all brain activity his goes up and all aspects of the brain go up.

To not make him super smart in some way would just be lying about the character and knowingly underutilizing him.

But with that all said I would like to point out that even though by nature he a brainy sorta guy given his where he comes from and his DNA, he is still a farmers son as I said before and he values his hands and human labor (this is shown by the fact that he took interest in the fact that the train were now becoming robot trains in issue #3 of Action)

This aspect should actually be the forefront of his way of thinking. He should love building things (not weapons or anything) in his down time like what adkal said. Mainly observational things or ways of jotting down what what he see or hears with his own powers.

I see him as the ultimate renascence man mainly because the character sorta embodies the renascence ideal.

As for the characters:

John: I sorta see him as Superman's science friend that he can go talk to about takions on things like that sort of the guy that can amaze Superman with the things he makes as much as Superman amazes other people with the things he makes. This is the man that Superman goes to for a second opinion but not the guy he goes to all the time (if you understand what I mean)

Batman: Now with this I would always think that Batman isn't necessarily smarter than Superman just more clever with what he know and what he wants to know and also how to use it. Basically seeing things from a different perspective because it doesn't matter how super he his, he's still a man. Also with that you must understand that Batman's expertise is detective work and he has the experience to boot so even though Superman is a an amazing reporter he could always use a second opinion.

Basically a lot of his friends are there to give the character different perspectives not to be flat out better at stuff then he his. Take Jimmy for instance: in All-star Superman during the issue with the invasion of the cube world Superman is racking his brain on how to repel them and he knows sunlight is what hurts but its 12:00 in December. How does he do it? Jimmy just throws out the idea of bouncing sunlight off of a big mirror and using it on our world. Jimmy brushes it off as a dumb idea but Superman trims it and makes it work by using the cube worlds oceans as the mirror. Now you see he may have never thought of that on his own but does that mean Jimmy is smarter? No, it means he has a different out look.

As for Lex: Well I would like to point you to Grants Superman now pitch where his Superman's biggest frailer was not seeing that Lex could have been the only one on earth to really get him and be his equal. I see Lex as a man who never really had to try if he didn't want to but when Superman came in everything he ever did just seemed so small next to the spectral of Superman. So now lex almost sort of raised his I.Q. out of sheer will just to get back at this guy. His probably not as smart as he or we think but it doesn't matter because he'll get himself there.

But really I see Superman as a simple solution guy as opposed to a big convoluted mess or the egghead over speaking sort of thing. Sure he knows quantum physics but he calls it time travel lol and yea he might know a lot about it but hey someone always has something to bring to the conversion. His words aren't big and sometimes people should almost be surprised that he know what he knows lol.

But I don't think we should ever run from his brain power. He's Superman.

[Superlad93]

Also can I just say that I'm really enjoying the conversation on this thread and the topic in general.

Thank you Adrian Tullberg for thing this up.