Aquaman vs Ben Grimm

[Hazard]

As I recall, there was no machine involved. He condensed them with his bare hands. The crushing was more impressive part of the feat IIRC.

Yeah, you are right.

The class system is a Marvel system, Aquaman, and all of the DC heroes are never given class 100 or whatever rankings except by fans.

Pretty much. We use words like Class 100 and so forth in Rumbles, but they don't mean the same thing that when Marvel uses them.

[Shellhead]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92.../aquaman30.jpg

I wonder if Ben can even hurt him, if he can tank a blow from a pissed-off Diana.

Certain heroes seem to have highly variable abilities from writer to writer, especially strength and speed. Aquaman and Wonder Woman are both good examples, so any feat involving these two interacting is more than likely PIS. Another example of a variable character would be Hourman (father or son).

[chilled monkey]

How did they even get past his fish telepathy?

Because a villain named Charybdis had absorbed Aquaman's fish telepathy. He used it to direct the piranhas to devour Aquaman's hand.

[KurtW95]

Aquaman would win under water. Ben would win on land.
I think a better fight would be Namor vs. Aquaman.

[Xero Kaiser]

Not really. He can already lift over 100 tons, Class 100's are beings who can lift something like billions upon billions of tons.

What the hell? Since when?

That doesn't even make sense. That's like saying that you have to move at the speed of light before you can be considered a bullet timer.

[MorphyVSFischer]

What the hell? Since when?

That doesn't even make sense.

It's comic books. Very little makes sense

[Slade]

Aquaman would win under water. Ben would win on land.
I think a better fight would be Namor vs. Aquaman.

If it was underwater Ben would drown so I guess it's technically a win for Aquaman. As for Namor, the only way Aquaman wins is through telepathy. Namor is much stronger and tougher than him.

[Surtur]

What the hell? Since when?

That doesn't even make sense. That's like saying that you have to move at the speed of light before you can be considered a bullet timer.

Since..for a while I'm guessing. For as long as I've been here Class 100's have usually been referred to as Superman level beings. Every now and then someone gets confused as to the meaning and it is then explained.

If you're asking why it's done, then I can't answer that. My guess is that Marvel probably listed beings in their Class 100 tier that could lift way more then simply 100 tons. So then here Class 100 changed to just mean beings in their weight class.

I'm not saying being able to lift billions of tons is the minimum amount of strength required to be considered Class 100. It just seems to be the kind of weight your average Class 100 can lift. I'd consider people like Superman, Thor, etc. to be your average Class 100's. Then people like Gladiator, PC Supes, etc. are the more high end examples.

[Sharpandpointies]

I think I'll make the explanation and then link to it in the Mod-Ruling post. :)

For a long time, Marvel insisted on using a Class designation for the strengths of their metahumans. It was based on the amount of mass a character could lift overhead (military press - not 'benching' or picking it up, and this is important). They labelled Peak Humans at around 800 lbs, and everything above that in their class of tons.

Ie, Spiderman was Class 10, Scorpion Class 15, Classic Rogue Class 50, the Thing Class 80, Captain Britain Class 90, and people like Thor, Wonder Man, and other top-end bricks were 'Class 100', explained as 'Capable of lifting in excess of 100 tons'.

Thing is, I don't think the people at Marvel understood how much things weigh. Or didn't care. So we end up with people like the Thing and Sasquatch tossing around stuff well in excess of 100 tons, we have Classic Rogue picking up stuff a lot heavier than 50 tons, and people like Wonder Man, Thor, Namor, and others do stuff like throw around hundreds of thousands and millions of tons (seriously, even ocean-going vessels are pretty freaking heavy, and that's not getting into 'picking up mountain-sized objects!)...or more. Basically, the further one gets from Class 1 (one ton), the more the Class scale diverges from what is actually shown in comics.

And we go by feats, not by handbooks saying 'so and so can lift 90 tons'.

On Rumbles, 'Class Whatever' is a short way of saying 'Is about as strong as other people who Marvel bills at that strength'. So a Class 80 is like saying 'is about as strong as the Thing'. A Class 50 is saying 'Is about as strong as Classic Rogue'. Etc.

For example, I bill Ryouga (Ranma 1/2) at somewhere around Class 60-70, based on the fact that he has lifted (with extreme effort) well over 100 tons of ice and thrown it a good fifty feet or more. The feat seems somewhat higher than something Classic Rogue could manage, but well-under the sort of thing Ben Grimm pulls off when he seriously exerts himself. Which gives a ballpark idea of where Ryouga sits.

Class 100 is basically a short way of saying 'Is one of the REALLY strong fellows who can hang with the top-end guys, but probably doesn't bust planets'. Class 100's are people like Thor, Wonderman (who, if I recall, is considered a low-end Class 100), an angry Hulk, Hercules, and so forth. On DC's side, we find people like Superman (top-end Class 100) and Wonder Woman, both of whom have feats that easily match those of Marvel's Class 100's.

It has, hereabouts, nothing to do with actual tonnage. And it really isn't 'proof' of anything. We get the proof of someone's strength from their feats. Saying 'Superman is a high-end Class 100' is just a short way of saying 'He's not a planet buster, but his feats easily place him at a high point among the people who are below such'. Given Superman does stuff like move the moon, this isn't a surprise.

So that's the whole Class thing laid out on Rumbles, from what I've observed.

The important point is this: feats matter. Not Classes. And not the definition of Classes. If people toss around phrases like 'That guy is Class 100, he easily beats up Ryouga', they should be ready to explain why this is so, based on feats. Otherwise it can get confusing. :)

[Little_Mac]

Ben can keep thunderclapping Aquaman and I suspect with his boxing and wrestling background if he closes then he should be themore skilled HTH combatant. Actually, has Ben ever shown his grappling ability in a fight?

Ben is definitely the most skilled boxer and wrestler. One question, though. Would a thunderclap actually work against a braced Aquaman? Aquaman survives easily at the depths of the ocean without any protection at all. Can Ben generate enough force from a thunderclap to affect/harm Aquaman?

[Schornforce]

Thank you! That 'class' stuff always confuses me to no end when I see it here. Nice to have it explained. :)

[Sharpandpointies]

Thank you! That 'class' stuff always confuses me to no end when I see it here. Nice to have it explained. :)

No worries. And it IS confusing. Not just for people who understand that Marvel screwed it up (sort of), but for people coming in here and trying to figure out what long-time posters are talking about.

'Well, it refers to how many tons they can lift, but really doesn't.'

:(