I thought Wolverine didn't want to endanger children

[Regino]

And it's okay to brainwash the Board of Education though so despite their Danger Room facilities acting up, they have the ability to continue running. I'm really feeling like an idiot when Marvel puts out this crap.

They're truly insulting our intelligence with stuff like that.

[Meehl]

Agreed! How dare they not adequately resolve issues pertaining to the New York Board of Education. Statutes and tort laws are paramount when writing a comic book.

[remydat]

It's a common theme in science fiction that the guy who goes back in time to save the future inadvertently causes the future, or at least has serious negative repercussions. Also, it's fitting ironic punishment that his choice to kill an innocent girl (and 9 million others) causes the future timeline that he was trying to prevent. You don't reward someone for his kind of actions. You punish him. And, this is fitting punishment, whereas being abandoned and forgetting is not fitting punishment. It's also the sequence of events that would teach him the lesson he needs to grow as a character, and give him a chance at redemption. I'm not sure what you read during Messiah Complex that made you think Marvel wanted to keep Bishop from looking foolish. Everything made him look foolish.

Yes I know it is a common theme hence the too easy reference. And there is no redemption for killing 9 billion (not millions) people. As I said before Bishop's only redemption is for another Bishop to come back. This one is ruined. I know comics tends to forgive a lot of shit (see Mags or Frenzy) but willing killing a planet. Nope, there is no coming back from that.

[Jota]

What actions did I mention that didn't happen in the books? I'm curious...

Let's see:

I didn't say he was written out of character; I agree that his arc has brought him here. I'm saying that the character himself is a traitorous dick who has made Scott's life miserable at every turn. Scott, having his own issues, continually allows him to stick around due to the tactical advantage he often brings. Logan, the self-hating, self-involved prick that he is, has for years made decisions and taken actions that seek to destroy the friendship and/or respect offered to him by most people because he hates himself.

Through the years Wolverine forged many friendships with many people, showing fierce loyalty and risking his life for them without a second thought
Cyclops doesn't have any relationship that even compares with what Wolverine has with Nightcrawler, Kitty, Jubilee, Collossus and many others. So, you're wrong.

Morrisson got this and it's evident in the Assault on Weapons Plus arc. Logan can't understand how a guy like Cyke has gotten the women and respect that he has, when Logan thinks he's a pussy. However, at that point Logan finally acknowledges his respect for Summer's abilities, made possible by Logan seeing Scott down and with crippling self doubt of his own.

What a complete load of bs! For starters, Wolverine never said he couldn't understand how Cyclops got all those women and respect. He told him off because Scott had several beautifull women coming on to him and all he did was whine. Logan told him that he didn't need Emma to loosen up, because that's what Jean wanted to.
Logan tried to get him back to the school and back with Jean, the woman you say he's allways trying to steal.
So, you're either wrong or insulting our inteligence by twisting that scene into something it certainly wasnt.

Post-Morrison, and definitely post Whedon, when Cyke starts to lose the self doubt (maybe he woke up one morning and thought "I lead one of the most powerful para-military forces in the world and bang unimaginably hot girls like its my job... Why do I doubt myself again?) then Logan became resentful of Scott, again, for having something he wanted and could never have.

Through that time Wolverine was in every Cyclops team, suported him every step of the way, ran his black ops team and they were so close and co-dependent that all that was missing was Cyke going to the bathroom and asking Logan to hold his dick while he peed.
No one was a more fierce suporter of Cyclops until Schism, then Wolverine. More bs! Did you even read the books?

Almost all of Wolverine's X-Men career has revolved around him wanting what Scott has: Leadership, Jean, respect from his peers for influencing the species (the school), and finally the biggest one: self respect.

Except for the massive amount of stories he starred in that didn't involve Scott in any way. His own stories, the times he was in other teams, the time he spent on the X-Men when Cyclops wasn't there.
Then, we have all the times he refused leadership, so you're wrong about that one too.
As for Jean, according to you, he doesn't want her because she's beautifull, inteligent, powerfull, a wonderful person and reminds him of his first love. No, he wants her, because she was Cyclops woman. Let's ignore the time Logan rejected her when she came on to him in Morrisson's run. Let's ignore his lack of interest in Emma. Let's ignore Mariko, Silver Fox, Itzu, Melita and the many, many other women he had relationships, that had nothing to do with Scott. Let's ignore all that because it proves you're complete and uterly wrong!

Read this way, Logan is not out of character at all. I applaud the writers making him a traitorous dick attempting to murder another of Cyke's grandchildren (Tyler.)

Tyler? Genesis? The guy who tried to raise Apocalypse from the dead, tried to turn Wolverine into the new Death horseman and got killed by him? That guy?
This is just sad! The rest of your examples were weak, completely twisted to fit your views, or just plain wrong, but this is bottom of the barrel.
Genesis! Wolverine wanted to kill Genesis because he was Cyclops grandson! Not because of what happened in the rest of the story, no. Dude, do you realise other people have access to those books too? That they were published and other people bought them? That they read the books and know what happened in them? That they know how wrong you are? I don't even know what to say about this one...

I'm just not sure why people don't see this rather layered portrait of a man with crippling self-hatred that projects onto the most successful male around him.

What in the hell does Captain America have to do with this?

(he's sexist too... Where's his hatred of Storm?)

I... WHAT?!!! WHERE IN THE HELL DID THIS CAME FROM?!!!
"he's sexist too... Where's his hatred of Storm?" Where's the connection with reality in this post? What does it have to do with anything ever written starring these characters? How can you even write this and post it in a place where people are going to read it? Those are the real questions.

All of this came from one post! Just one! I came in here all fired up for a nasty discussion but now, I'm just depressed. This is to much nonsense!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Wolverine never got over Cyclops "ruining" his non-relationship with Jean, lol

Not even close. There's a whole wing of his mind devoted to just that.

Canon.

[Jota]

Wolverine never got over Cyclops "ruining" his non-relationship with Jean, lol

Not even close. There's a whole wing of his mind devoted to just that.

Canon.

He rejected Jean when she came on to him and tried to get them back together.
Canon.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

He rejected Jean when she came on to him and tried to get them back together.
Canon.

So he was cool with it for a few months in continuity. I was referring to the recent canon that obliterated any notion of Logan being cool with the Jott pairing.

As if the Jean/Logan fanfic from "Wolverine vs the X-Men" wasn't enough, a certain lock of hair comes to mind. That creep, lol.

[Jota]

So he was cool with it for a few months in continuity. I was referring to the recent canon that obliterated any notion of Logan being cool with the Jott pairing.

As if the Jean/Logan fanfic from "Wolverine vs the X-Men" wasn't enough, a certain lock of hair comes to mind. That creep, lol.

More then a few months really. His letter to Jean in her weding showed him being very suportive. In fact, the only time I remember Logan hiting on Jean after her weding was him kissing her in Casey's first issue, when he thought they were both going to die. What exactly "obliterated any notion of Logan being cool with the Jott pairing"?

[DexterSinister]

Through the years Wolverine forged many friendships with many people, showing fierce loyalty and risking his life for them without a second thought Cyclops doesn't have any relationship that even compares with what Wolverine has with Nightcrawler, Kitty, Jubilee, Collossus and many others. So, you're wrong.

Beast, no one has ever cared as much about Logan's character and how his actions effect him than Beast has to Cyclop's. Every main member of the the X-Men is loyal and would risk their life for any other member so that is hardly a selling point. Wolverine has had more less meaningful relationships because they have him constantly moving on to his next partnership which makes each of his previous friendships seem less meaningful, shoe-horning Wolverine into relationships and places he shouldn't be has taken a great toll on the character and less is more would be a great way of patching up Wolverine's faults.

[Drax1981]

Beast, no one has ever cared as much about Logan's character and how his actions effect him than Beast has to Cyclop's. Every main member of the the X-Men is loyal and would risk their life for any other member so that is hardly a selling point. Wolverine has had more less meaningful relationships because they have him constantly moving on to his next partnership which makes each of his previous friendships seem less meaningful, shoe-horning Wolverine into relationships and places he shouldn't be has taken a great toll on the character and less is more would be a great way of patching up Wolverine's faults.

That actually makes a fair bit of sense. Wolverine is functionally immortal. It makes sense that he would have a parade of much younger hangers-on. He doesn't want to deal with people as they get older and start to decay. Why should he bother when young girls are already attracted to the rebel loner routine Logan has perfected by this point. And, if these young girls die horribly, so much the better! Then Logan can solve his problems with another hyper violence spree and he gets another tragic story to use to hook whoever the next young lady will be.

[Jota]

Beast, no one has ever cared as much about Logan's character and how his actions effect him than Beast has to Cyclop's. Every main member of the the X-Men is loyal and would risk their life for any other member so that is hardly a selling point. Wolverine has had more less meaningful relationships because they have him constantly moving on to his next partnership which makes each of his previous friendships seem less meaningful, shoe-horning Wolverine into relationships and places he shouldn't be has taken a great toll on the character and less is more would be a great way of patching up Wolverine's faults.

Not even close. Beast is more of a friend of Wolverine then Cyclops, now. And, while I agree that Logan was shoehorned in relationships he shouldn't be, the ones I mentioned are very close relationships that are a blast to read.

[HXHAlex]

Wolverine never got over Cyclops "ruining" his non-relationship with Jean, lol

Not even close. There's a whole wing of his mind devoted to just that.

Canon.

It really all boils down to this

[DexterSinister]

Not even close. Beast is more of a friend of Wolverine then Cyclops, now. And, while I agree that Logan was shoehorned in relationships he shouldn't be, the ones I mentioned are very close relationships that are a blast to read.

Beast is not on speaking terms with Cyclop's because he cares about what he has done, Wolverine has done the same and worse and Beast doesn't really care. Yes Wolverine has had some really great moments he was a really good character but each moment after doesn't mean as much when we know he will budied up with someone else soon enough.

[jarrod]

Beast is not on speaking terms with Cyclop's because he cares about what he has done, Wolverine has done the same and worse and Beast doesn't really care. Yes Wolverine has had some really great moments he was a really good character but each moment after doesn't mean as much when we know he will budied up with someone else soon enough.

Logan's X-Force isn't really much like Scott's X-Force, even if they share similar goals.

X-Force also wasn't really Hank's breaking point with Scott.

[DevilishRogue]

I'm sure Wiccan would defend Logan about this very thing.