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  1. #31
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    So you guys don't understand an intentionally ironic plot twist. I see.

  2. #32
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    Do you honestly think not letting the Phoenix Force do what it wants and pissing it off is a good idea?

  3. #33
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddyeatsyourface View Post
    There was only one planet confirmed to be taken by the phoenix. Unless there has been new information from secret avengers?

    Obviously the Phoenix Force doesn't need a host to kill/rebirth things, but do you honestly believe letting another human become the phoenix is a good idea? Especially Hope of all people.
    There was Terrax's planet, another planet shown at the start of AvX 1 and then Magneto felt the death of everyone on a planet. Those are the ones confirmed with life.

    Also, Nova said it was destroying planets and as we all know the Phoenix wouldn't waste it's time destroying planets that weren't inhabitated because that's not what it does. Phoenix Endsong #4. "My counseler believes the PF comes to purify the universe....burning away what doesn't work. My wife. My children. My parents and their parents. They died with 5 billion others when the Dark Phoenix ate D'Bari's star! And if you want to tell me they were a genetic obsolence, a cosmic blot, part of an unraveling that the Phoenix was designed to correct? Then you're as insane as the Phoenix"

    Unfortunately for the Captain, the brocolli people were.

    I don't see how harming Hope, pissing her off or killing her when the Life Entity can bring her back to life is a good idea at all. If there's no hope anyway the host thing is worth a shot because we have proof from past experiences that it's been "tamed" before. Make no mistake there is no stopping the PF.

  4. #34
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    I was able to deal with this until the Avengers Academy issue. I don't think I've ever read so much hypocritical bullshit from one character in ages.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddyeatsyourface View Post
    It's called Character development. Of Course he's changed/changing that's what led to Schism. A change in Wolverine's belief system about "war" and "child soldiers"

    Wolverine knows that you can't protect someone from the phoenix. THEY ALL KNOW THAT, but they're stupid enough to try to control it. Logan sees this stupidity and wishes to to stop it before they have another dark phoenix situation.

    He can't "protect" Hope from danger when she is the fucking danger. lol
    A good few posters have already called the existing danger of the fire bird. A reason for giving Wolverine another title is what led to schism when there are far better choices for the one to call Scott on letting the children fight, protecting Hope despite the risks would have been good character development what happened during schism was a joke. Hope has caused no lasting harm to anyone and so far has proven to have kept her cool and I'd bet good money she will survive this.

  6. #36
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    Wolverine as a character is stretched pretty thin because of the number of titles in which he appears. He is all of these things; Headmaster, Avenger, X-Man and a Killer and these are just expressions of where this character can be taken. Looking at it as a whole makes one think of Wolverine as a hypocrite, and it is true on some levels but; title by title, one is just expected to suspend their disbelief. I can't blame Marvel for wanting it both ways. Why not use such a versatile character is all his possible iterations(Cyclops even though my favourite character only has the one iteration). Sure people will cry hypocrisy but its not like its affecting sales. I still follow WATXM and Uncanny X-Force. Reading older storylines out of publishing sequence is probably the main reason I feel this way.

    There always is an expectation of suspension of disbelief involving all these characters like World War Hulk attacked the most concentrated population on Earth but killed NO ONE. Wolverine is a known killer but he gets to run a school, while Cyke gets blackmailed for his version of X-Force. All of this isn't bad storytelling or even plot holes its just the nature of superhero stories. Look at the black and white previews for WATX Magik is fighting Cap (w/ his miniature Shield) can't she just teleport him and the rest of the Avengers to limbo? ofcourse, (and one can come up with hundreds of different ways a fight can go) but all of these kinds ideas are a hindrance to the flow of the story which remember: at all these Marvel retreats are designed on the macro level.

  7. #37
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    Wolverine has always been willing to kill for the greater good, and he flat out told Hope he would kill her if he felt he had to and she said okay. He is NOT a hypocrite for going after Hope, its entirely consistent with his character. You may not like it, you may think he's an asshole, but he's not a hypocrite, at least not for the Hope situation.

  8. #38
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    He's not a hypocrite about the Hope thing, not at all. Logan has always done what he thought has needed to be done. He's more in character there than he has been on other things.

    His treatment of the Utopa kids on the other hand, make him look like a massive asshole.

  9. #39
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfirexl View Post
    Wolverine's X-Force isnt like Scott's X-Force, he using already wool and dyed killers not suicidal teenage girls, a good man looking for revenge, a screwed up scott who just happened to be looking for her dad, or a kid whose negative use of power is slowely making him unstable. Also Wolverine's team isnt going around killing humans, they are stopping dangerous mutant threats Kid Apokolips needed to die as did his four horsemen, The Father needed to be stopped or it would of been Deathlok Nation, the only morally grey thing they did was kill that old Nazi becuase Mag's asked them to, Angel needed to be stopped and Wolverine was straight up and honest annf everything with his whole team who, unlike Scott who lied about it.

    Also according to later solicits Wolverine and Hope will come to an understanding, and start working together.
    Are you trying to say it's okay because they're murdering dangerous mutants but it's not okay if they're murdering dangeous humans? BTW they mixed it up with the Purifiers too. It was in that Fear Itself mini.

  10. #40

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    Your right to a degree Merc some stories should be seen as practically separate universes but that only works if they stories are disconnected (which they normally are) but what Wolverine does in one title effects his decision in another he should be treated as the same character so you have to call the hypocrisy or the bad writing.

    The power thing usage is accepted by most readers or else speedsters would just blitz everyone while the victims appeared to stand still unless of course the power is incredibly obvious like Namor's being stronger under water but who would forget that.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDtown View Post
    Wolverine has always been willing to kill for the greater good, and he flat out told Hope he would kill her if he felt he had to and she said okay. He is NOT a hypocrite for going after Hope, its entirely consistent with his character. You may not like it, you may think he's an asshole, but he's not a hypocrite, at least not for the Hope situation.
    Exactly. He's against killing kids or putting them in danger. The only exception is when he is for killing and putting kids in danger.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax1981 View Post
    Exactly. He's against killing kids or putting them in danger. The only exception is when he is for killing and putting kids in danger.
    Its called killing for the greater good, (Killing Hope to save all the other children), and its totally in-character and makes sense for Wolverine. He's not a hypocrite, Wolverine has never claimed to be above that, even when he made the school, he still had X-force and he was upfront about that fact.



    He's never been against killing kids if it meant saving everyone else, the kid apocalypse saga proves that, even though he hesitated, he agreed with Fantomex that killing him was the right move.


    Just because you don't like what he's doing doesn't mean he's a hypocrite.
    Last edited by BigDtown; 05-03-2012 at 08:48 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    He's not a hypocrite about the Hope thing, not at all. Logan has always done what he thought has needed to be done. He's more in character there than he has been on other things.
    Yeah, Wolverine is only killing Hope to prevent disaster because he knows that both Scott and Steve would never dealt the final blow when it came right down to it.

  14. #44

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    As far as Hope is concerned he has been honest but people call on a hypocrite when they see them react differently in the same situation with others. Genesis is effectively Hope light in that the stakes aren't as high but the situation is roughly the same except when it comes to Genesis they have no comparison on what will happen, if Wolverine was in character when they first found him he would be in a body bag.

    This isn't one of those easy greater goods where you kill a thousand to save a million this is one of the nasty ones that set a bad precedent where you kill because they may be a risk to the many.

  15. #45

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    Wolverine will Genesis at the first sign of threat. The same situation with Hope.
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