Stan Lee

[LEADER DESSLOK]

...creating without ownership is exploitation and should be against public policy.

And that "public policy" would put thousands if not hundreds of thousands of creators who work for someone else--out of work. Reducing many to practicing their craft as a hobby while they worked as teachers (if they were lucky) or worked at jobs they HATED so they could earn a living.

On a related note, the Screenwriters Guild went on strike and fought for a 1 or 2% (I don't remember which) royalty which they felt would help them in the lean years if they were in-between gigs. That's what I advocate, reasonable negotiations. Demanding EVERYTHING from a company that's covering 98% of the expenses while it is assuming ALL of the risks if a creator's "ideas" don't generate a profit is just plain ridiculous.

[CromagnonMan]

I agree with Desslok, most workers are exploited everyday as part of the capitalist system anyway, not all of us get a fair share of what we're due. the same applied to comic creators in times past, its just comics creators nowadays are ridiculously over-praised for what they do.

[dan bailey]

#1- The question is: were you FORCED to work there? Probably not. Of course,some companies were better than others, that's just simple reality. But, you weren't FORCED to stay there if you didn't want to.

Of course not. Still, your evident idea of the work force & the opportunities therein for those of us who came from the ranks of the not-very-privileged is ... questionable, at best. (Something tells me -- I could be wrong, of course -- that you aren't the only person in your family to ever make 5 digits a year. I am. Or that when you lost your job in your chosen profession, you wound up being unemployed for nearly 2 years & drastically unemployed for 2 more, starting out at less than 20 percent of what you were making before ... & even today, 7 years later, you're still only about 75 percent of the way there. I did & I am. Of course, though, you're on to me -- that's just the way I wanted it all along, lazy, selfish idiot that I am.)

ITEM #3- NOW you want to address it? Then what was the point of ITEM #2?

I think it's absolutely precious that every one of your posts is a carefully considered & crafted essay. Some of us -- me, for instance -- make points as they occur to us. I know that sort of haphazard approach falls far short of the lofty standards established & followed by the true supergenius that you are, but that's the way it goes.

I'm still waiting, though, for a response as to why

working long hours under unsafe conditions

is anything but the reddest of herrings (to match your politics, clearly, given your obvious obsession with the alleged plight of these people), since, once again, those workers chose that employment of their own free will rather than taking a sensible course of action & becoming the heads of corporations.

[dan bailey]

I agree with Desslok, most workers are exploited everyday as part of the capitalist system anyway, not all of us get a fair share of what we're due.

Of course. So it's all perfectly cool, right?

Good to know.

[CromagnonMan]

Of course. So it's all perfectly cool, right?

Good to know.

well, no..but the point is it wasnt just those comic guys who got shafted. im not sure what we can do about it. a revolution perhaps?

[dan bailey]

And that "public policy" would put thousands if not hundreds of thousands of creators who work for someone else--out of work.

I live in a part of the U.S. where there was some unpleasantness around 150 years ago over some people's insistence on enacting a "public policy" in which slavery could no longer be used to prop up the cotton economy. Thank god cooler heads prevailed, else there might've been civil war or something.

[dan bailey]

well, no..but the point is it wasnt just those comic guys who got shafted.

Of course not. At the same time, this is the Classic Comics forum, not the Newspaper Reporters Forum or the Rocket Scientists Forum or the Bookstore Clerks Forum or the Lawyers Forum, so if there's an undue focus on comics companies & their (mis)treatment of their creators, I don't regard it as wholly inappropriate.

im not sure what we can do about it. a revolution perhaps?

Probably nothing to be done as far as extracting actual results, but that doesn't stop a handful of us from trying to do our tiny bit by withholding money from those we regard as particular malefactors (i.e. Disney Marvel).

I mean, a lot of people stopped buying Exxon gas after the Valdez crash back in '89 or whenever, & I don't recall the company going bankrupt (quite the contrary, I'm sure), but again, one does what one can. See also: BP & the Gulf oil spill, especially in this part of the U.S.

(I guess if Exxon &/or BP had given out Avengers stickers or something with every fill-up, all bets would've been off.)

[2 Up 2 Down]

Saw him at the Philly con. His Q&A was funny and he was very nice to the fans. His table stayed packed the whole time he was there.

[berk]

Dan's comments are spot on and I'm amazed anyone is trying to argue the point. There was no alternative employer for a comic book artist in the 50s or 60s, i.e. none that didn't follow the same unethical and exploitive business practices as did Marvel and DC. Cory Doctorow had an interesting piece on boingboing the other day about how the publishing industry was a partial exception to the rule of shortsighted greed and unfairness that prevailed in, for example, the music industry. The comics biz is and especially was more like the music than the publishing industry. Here's the article: Publishing's hidden virtues

[Darthfury78]

Here is a Stan Lee moment:

http://bloom.bg/NcHewX

[HMPL]

Try getting a Buzz Aldrin auto, makes Lee's seem like a steal. :-P

$250.00 for his autograph and "Apollo XI" designation on previously unsigned items; $500.00 for items already autographed by others; $20 per word for additional inscriptions

[Venomous Mask]

One thing I'll put out there is that Stan is probably not gonna be with us for much longer, so you might want to take a chance like this when it comes up.