Ultimately Off-Topic VI: Another Star Trek Reference

[wyokid]

You know, that's a good saying. I agree with you. However, Peter gives into his base temptation because for the first time he can do something about it. The world has taken so much from him. His parents are most likely dead (it's not clear in the film if he knows that) He gets picked on by Flash and he appears to have no friends except a girl he has a major crush on.

He thinks finally! I get Flash back for all the times he's humiliated me. I can get that thief back for killing my Uncle Ben. I have the power. I can use it to make the world pay.

This Peter is very anger and he seeks to use them for his own personal gain. It's a very human thing to give into hate, anger and vengance. Peter does indeed let those demons control him.

However, right after he saves that kid and has that talked with Captain Stacy he realizes that he's been using his power for the wrong reasons. He's on the road to becoming the hero you know and love Wyokid. That's what this first film was about his journey from an angery teen into becoming a true hero.

That's why I liked this film so much. He isn't the Peter Parker we're use to seeing. Heck the origin story even changed up abit (smart move too)
But I do believe somewhere in this film, he becomes the Peter Parker we're use to seeing or he takes a step towards it.

Don't you think so?

He doesn't even catch the thief, that plot point is dropped off the face of the Earth. Only let's go with what you are saying here, he's still an unlikable douche by the end of the film.


I'd like to talk about something that really bothered me about the film, Gwen Stacy.

spoilers:

A lot of praise has been given to Gwen's characterization and how she was the "perfect girlfriend" (which I feel like is an insult to Mary Jane) for Peter...why though? Because she's shown as such. She has ZERO flaws, she's patient, understanding, sweet, adores Peter no matter what, she's never wrong, doesn't lose her cool, she has no conflicts, and has no goals other then being Peter's girlfriend. She's given basically no character development, we know next to nothing about her. She falls in love with Peter but we never actually know why. She's just completely fallen head-over-heels for him for no reason whatsoever. Sure she sees him stand up for someone but that's it. It's the same kind of non-realistic romance Twilight is criticized so harshly for. We learn a lot about Peter, but what do we know about Gwen though? We know that her father going out at night worries her, but that's as far as our look on how her relationship with George goes. When George dies Gwen is nowhere to be seen. The film builds George's relationship with Peter more then his own child. George tells Peter to stay away from Gwen yet Gwen is never given the chance to voice how she feels and how she can make her own choices in life. We know she likes science, but as the film shows she's only Connors intern to be there to flirt with Peter. What are her goals? Does she want to be a scientist? A doctor? A nurse? Why is she there? It's never told or asked about. Yes she does help create the formula to beat Lizard, but she's given no credit and George is shown as a real "hero" in the end with Peter. As I mentioned all the praise for Gwen I feel as an insult towards MJ so let's look at what we knew about Mary Jane from the first film. Early in the film we are told that she wants to become an actor and move to New York City and through the trilogy we see her work towards her goal. We learn that she comes from an abusive family as well. She made mistakes, she had flaws, she said the wrong things, she got angry, and she didn't take Peter's crap. In other words, she was human. There was actually a character there and not some doll of a woman. This is in no means an insult towards Emma Stone who I think did the best she could with what she was given and I say that as someone who is not a fan of Emma Stone. As I said before, I thought the film was incredibly well cast it's just everything else that has the problems.

end of spoilers

[thecrimson]

I was going to say something, but I'll leave this to Jer and others.

[wyokid]

Why? I want your thoughts on it too.

[thecrimson]

Why? I want your thoughts on it too.

Jer just ends up saying a much more intelligent version of what I end up saying. So let's wait for him to respond.

[wyokid]

Then why post at all? The whole point of a forum is to post your opinions and discuss them.

[Jer]

He doesn't even catch the thief, that plot point is dropped off the face of the Earth. Only let's go with what you are saying here, he's still an unlikable douche by the end of the film.

He doesn't catch the thief because he's no longer concerned with catching him. His major concern isn't vengeance anymore but protecting the citizens of New York. That's why the plot point is drop. It changes from him wanting to lash out in anger to protecting people with his powers.

and I completely disagree that he's an unlikable douche by the end of the film. If you dont see it that way, then that's you.

I'd like to talk about something that really bothered me about the film, Gwen Stacy.

Okay go ahead

spoilers:

A lot of praise has been given to Gwen's characterization and how she was the "perfect girlfriend" (which I feel like is an insult to Mary Jane) for Peter...why though? Because she's shown as such. She has ZERO flaws, she's patient, understanding, sweet, adores Peter no matter what, she's never wrong, doesn't lose her cool, she has no conflicts, and has no goals other then being Peter's girlfriend. She's given basically no character development, we know next to nothing about her. She falls in love with Peter but we never actually know why. She's just completely fallen head-over-heels for him for no reason whatsoever. Sure she sees him stand up for someone but that's it. It's the same kind of non-realistic romance Twilight is criticized so harshly for.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I know how you feel about that. I agree with you actually but you have to realize Gwen is sort of a holy grail to a lot of older fans because she was/is a major turning point in Peter's life. A lot of fans pre Mary Jane see her as Peter's first and best choice to marry. It's kindof a hard standard to live up too. The minute you show Gwen as having any flaws, I strongly believe that a lot of fans would have jumped down this movie throat. It's not an insult to MJ though, Gwen was originally created to be the perfect girl for Peter but MJ won fans heart and soon she became the perfect girl for him. Besides this is a matter of opinion. I'm a huge believer in the Peter Parker Mary Jane relationship. There are some that are really for Peter Parker Gwen Stacy relationship.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

We learn a lot about Peter, but what do we know about Gwen though? We know that her father going out at night worries her, but that's as far as our look on how her relationship with George goes. When George dies Gwen is nowhere to be seen. The film builds George's relationship with Peter more then his own child. George tells Peter to stay away from Gwen yet Gwen is never given the chance to voice how she feels and how she can make her own choices in life. We know she likes science, but as the film shows she's only Connors intern to be there to flirt with Peter. What are her goals? Does she want to be a scientist? A doctor? A nurse? Why is she there? It's never told or asked about. Yes she does help create the formula to beat Lizard, but she's given no credit and George is shown as a real "hero" in the end with Peter.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Refresh my memory again, who knew in the movie besides the super hero who's not revealing his public identity and the cop who died that Gwen help create the formula? How would she get credit for it if no one said "Hey ya. Gwen Stacy help create this formula. And this is Peter's story, we also don't know much about Aunt May here. We really don't know that much about Curt Conners other then he just wants to heal himself. We never even meet Norman Osborn despite the fact Osborn is funding all of Dr. Conners research. The film didn't really focus on anybody except Peter, so asking why Gwen isn't focused on is a moot point.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

As I mentioned all the praise for Gwen I feel as an insult towards MJ so let's look at what we knew about Mary Jane from the first film. Early in the film we are told that she wants to become an actor and move to New York City and through the trilogy we see her work towards her goal. We learn that she comes from an abusive family as well. She made mistakes, she had flaws, she said the wrong things, she got angry, and she didn't take Peter's crap. In other words, she was human. There was actually a character there and not some doll of a woman. This is in no means an insult towards Emma Stone who I think did the best she could with what she was given and I say that as someone who is not a fan of Emma Stone. As I said before, I thought the film was incredibly well cast it's just everything else that has the problems.

end of spoilers[/QUOTE]

spoilers:

No worries, man. I strongly believe we'll get more info on Gwen Stacy in the next film which is when she will die (spoiler alert every body) and Peter will blame himself

end of spoilers

[Jer]

Then why post at all? The whole point of a forum is to post your opinions and discuss them.

--- Wyokid has got a point. Wyokid isn't afraid to voice his opinions no matter how crazy they might be :P

[thecrimson]

Then why post at all? The whole point of a forum is to post your opinions and discuss them.

See, he said some things I was going to say.

And I don't like having my opinion scrutinized by you, because even though I am 100% behind whatever I think, when someone pushes me on it, I tend to not be able to support myself as well as I do in my head.

I actually only come on here to talk in general with you guys. Not debate or argue about things.

[wyokid]

spoilers:

I know how you feel about that. I agree with you actually but you have to realize Gwen is sort of a holy grail to a lot of older fans because she was/is a major turning point in Peter's life. A lot of fans pre Mary Jane see her as Peter's first and best choice to marry. It's kindof a hard standard to live up too. The minute you show Gwen as having any flaws, I strongly believe that a lot of fans would have jumped down this movie throat. It's not an insult to MJ though, Gwen was originally created to be the perfect girl for Peter but MJ won fans heart and soon she became the perfect girl for him. Besides this is a matter of opinion. I'm a huge believer in the Peter Parker Mary Jane relationship. There are some that are really for Peter Parker Gwen Stacy relationship.

end of spoilers

The problem is that now in the film you show Mary Jane having flaws the amount of people calling her a "bitch" is going to be enormous.

spoilers:

Refresh my memory again, who knew in the movie besides the super hero who's not revealing his public identity and the cop who died that Gwen help create the formula? How would she get credit for it if no one said "Hey ya. Gwen Stacy help create this formula. And this is Peter's story, we also don't know much about Aunt May here. We really don't know that much about Curt Conners other then he just wants to heal himself. We never even meet Norman Osborn despite the fact Osborn is funding all of Dr. Conners research. The film didn't really focus on anybody except Peter, so asking why Gwen isn't focused on is a moot point.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

They've had comics that have that and the person who does is it is still given credit. A simple "I informed Connors intern of what was going on and she quickly whipped up a formula" scene was all that was needed.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

No worries, man. I strongly believe we'll get more info on Gwen Stacy in the next film which is when she will die (spoiler alert every body) and Peter will blame himself

end of spoilers

spoilers:

And then MJ will be shown with flaws and Gwen will go down as the perfect girlfriend that was stolen away from him and MJ will be the "bitch" he had to settle with like so many comic readers already think she is

end of spoilers

[thecrimson]

I wonder if it's time for a new avatar.

There's going to be a Phineas and Ferb episode that is a cross-over with Marvel.

[Jer]

spoilers:

And then MJ will be shown with flaws and Gwen will go down as the perfect girlfriend that was stolen away from him and MJ will be the "bitch" he had to settle with like so many comic readers already think she is

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I have to respond more latter but for now. Yes. that's about the size of it. It sucks but that is MJ eternal place among fans who read the night Gwen Stacy died

end of spoilers

[wyokid]

Thanks to a miscommunication between my sister and I not only am I not working this weekend but worst of all I am missing my own grandfather's funeral. FML

[thecrimson]

Thanks to a miscommunication between my sister and I not only am I not working this weekend but worst of all I am missing my own grandfather's funeral. FML

Is there anyway you can get out of working?

[Jer]

Thanks to a miscommunication between my sister and I not only am I not working this weekend but worst of all I am missing my own grandfather's funeral. FML

You should slap your sister hard for that.

[wyokid]

You should slap your sister hard for that.

I don't hit women Jer, usually don't even hit men, but there was one time I almost hit a woman. It was recent too, but now is not the time to go into it!