Action Comics #9 SPOILERS

[Dr. Hurt]

Oh, so you admit Azz's version doesn't act like Wonder Woman. That's progress finally.

No, she's the same character but under different circumstances in a different book. So there's a big difference from what came before.

WW isnt too different, but she's less stuck up, less perfect, and more casual and friendly. Friendly in the "lets have a beer bro" as opposed to "sure i'm your friend little girl, now which problem do you want my awesome self to help you with?"

So take from that whatever you want. Point still stands. Old WW didnt sell.

[americanwonder]

I've seen this behavior - opinion before. Basically WW fans wanting to ape Superman and thinking that his behaviour is more WW than Superman, because hey, Superman is just supposed to punch things. But our perfect WW is so multi-dimensional.

Silly Morrison, why do you go and write Superman so well? That's out of character! That's for WW you silly beans!

lol. I'm not above aping storylines; it they didn't give so few good ones to WW, maybe we wouldn't have to. ;) Batman, Inc. also should have been a WW story! Bruce and Clark have lots more good stories, they really should share.

Think Carol is wishing for Rucka's ambassador Wonder Woman's return.

I do! But I doubt Carol does, (iirc) I don't think she was the biggest fan.

[Free-Man]

I never understood that logic. I see it fairly often brought up that "Batman Inc. should have been a WW story" but that would assume that the concept of a superhero franchising their identity was something DC came up with and arbitrarily decided should go to Batman, when in reality it was born out of the themes Morrison was playing with in his Batman run well before that.

[SteveGus]

I never understood that logic. I see it fairly often brought up that "Batman Inc. should have been a WW story" but that would assume that the concept of a superhero franchising their identity was something DC came up with and arbitrarily decided should go to Batman, when in reality it was born out of the themes Morrison was playing with in his Batman run well before that.

I didn't read Batman, Inc. But the concept of franchising your identity as a superhero was done by Perez early in his run, the Mindy Meyer business, up to v. 2 #20.

[Outside_85]

I didn't read Batman, Inc. But the concept of franchising your identity as a superhero was done by Perez early in his run, the Mindy Meyer business, up to v. 2 #20.

Reminds me, WW did have the Wonder Scouts once...but they all ended up getting butchered by one of Aquamans natives when they tried getting to PI :S

[Free-Man]

I didn't read Batman, Inc. But the concept of franchising your identity as a superhero was done by Perez early in his run, the Mindy Meyer business, up to v. 2 #20.

Sure, but my point is that people treat the argument like Morrison and DC thought up the idea of franchising a superhero identity without any particular hero in mind and then gave it to Batman when it should have gone to Wonder Woman, when in reality the idea (as it pertains to this specific instance) was born out of the stuff Morrison was already doing on Batman. I don't see how Wonder Woman and the concept that the idea should go to her mythos, ever factored into the decision.

[americanwonder]

Sure, but my point is that people treat the argument like Morrison and DC thought up the idea of franchising a superhero identity without any particular hero in mind and then gave it to Batman when it should have gone to Wonder Woman, when in reality the idea (as it pertains to this specific instance) was born out of the stuff Morrison was already doing on Batman. I don't see how Wonder Woman and the concept that the idea should go to her mythos, ever factored into the decision.

That isn't how I'm treating the argument at all; I don't think WW factored into their decision, and I'm not saying WW should have.

I'm saying Batman lives in a cave. He likes the shadows. He doesn't exactly play well with others.

"Every woman a Wonder Woman." Holiday girls. Mindy Meyer. Wonder scouts. An embassy. No secret ID.

If we step back for a bit, which of those two sounds more likely to go with a global franchise?

[Theozilla]

That isn't how I'm treating the argument at all; I don't think WW factored into their decision, and I'm not saying WW should have.

I'm saying Batman lives in a cave. He likes the shadows. He doesn't exactly play well with others.

"Every woman a Wonder Woman." Holiday girls. Mindy Meyer. Wonder scouts. An embassy. No secret ID.

If we step back for a bit, which of those two sounds more likely to go with a global franchise?

Except no one associates "corporate billionaire" with Wonder Woman before Batman. The corporate aspect of Batman Inc. is essential to the concept that Morrison is working with.

[Free-Man]

Except no associates "corporate billionaire" with Wonder Woman before Batman. The corporate aspect of Batman Inc. is essential to the concept that Morrison is working with.

This, and while I understand your point AmericanWonder, the "He's a loner who doesn't play well with others" thing doesn't really hold weight when you consider that he has a pretty large supporting cast of other vigilantes who he either personally trained or approved of, and has been a charter member of the Justice League since the early 60's. And then more recently he had a popular cartoon where the entire premise was him teaming up with other heroes every week.

I'm sure there are a lot of fans who still cling to the idea of him as a twisted loner slinking through the shadows, but that isn't the only valid interpretation of the mythos.

[americanwonder]

Except no associates "corporate billionaire" with Wonder Woman before Batman. The corporate aspect of Batman Inc. is essential to the concept that Morrison is working with.

Hey, I'm not saying that every single story beat is a perfect fit for WW. But, just as writers customize it for Batman (or Superman), I think there are some of the big ideas that would work really well when tailored more for WW.

... I'm sure there are a lot of fans who still cling to the idea of him as a twisted loner slinking through the shadows, but that isn't the only valid interpretation of the mythos.

Absolutely.

My point isn't that DC should have made Action #9 or Batman, Inc. into WW stories. Nor am I saying that Batman and Superman should be restricted to only certain types of stories. My main point in even bringing it up is that many writers, including Morrison, say WW is tough to write. Yet, they come up with many story ideas for other characters that could also work really well for WW. Superman out proactively changing the world is not a bad Superman story. But I do think it's actually a better fit for a WW story. But then again, Morrison seems to get himself too tied-up in WW's early bondage and can't seem to get out of it to see much more.

[Mr. Holmes]

My point isn't that DC should have made Action #9 or Batman, Inc. into WW stories. Nor am I saying that Batman and Superman should be restricted to only certain types of stories. My main point in even bringing it up is that many writers, including Morrison, say WW is tough to write. Yet, they come up with many story ideas for other characters that could also work really well for WW. Superman out proactively changing the world is not a bad Superman story. But I do think it's actually a better fit for a WW story. But then again, Morrison seems to get himself too tied-up in WW's early bondage and can't seem to get out of it to see much more.

Umm..yeah you keep telling yourself that.

[Outside_85]

My point isn't that DC should have made Action #9 or Batman, Inc. into WW stories. Nor am I saying that Batman and Superman should be restricted to only certain types of stories. My main point in even bringing it up is that many writers, including Morrison, say WW is tough to write. Yet, they come up with many story ideas for other characters that could also work really well for WW. Superman out proactively changing the world is not a bad Superman story. But I do think it's actually a better fit for a WW story. But then again, Morrison seems to get himself too tied-up in WW's early bondage and can't seem to get out of it to see much more.

Part of the problem with the WW as Batman Inc. type of story is that Diana as a superhuman cant just look at any given country and 'empower' someone to be her representative there like Batman has. Mostly Bats have singled out normal people who's already does what he does, Diana however can't pull off the same feat...unless she picks from the following;
1) Amazons from PI...which have a high probability of going wrong, considering how the Amazons seem to appreciate other people. (Might work for those who think the Amazons should repent and redeem themselves)
2) Take ordinary girls with potential and really do empower them to superhuman levels (nice way of getting Donna, Philipus, Artemis and all the others back?)
3) Rely on native superheroins to act as her ambassadors in her stead (but I kinda doubt thats an option since Diana is pretty alone with her ambassadorial mission)

She could then have the candidates appointed to promote peace and equality in their home countries while helping out keeping the places safe...till someone shows up and starts offing them (pretty much inevitable).

But I might warn you that Morrison has mentioned that Batman Inc. is not one of Bruce's best ideas, so I will predict it is going to end horrible for many of its members (like that Russian Batman...dissolved in acid while still alive).


In regards to President Superman...well Nubia points it out in the back-up story how he is walking a really narrow path with what he is doing with the power of his day job working against his superheroic job.

[Outside_85]

Double post

[vaffrey]

Mostly Bats have singled out normal people who's already does what he does, Diana however can't pull off the same feat...unless she picks from the following;
1) Amazons from PI...which have a high probability of going wrong, considering how the Amazons seem to appreciate other people. (Might work for those who think the Amazons should repent and redeem themselves)
2) Take ordinary girls with potential and really do empower them to superhuman levels (nice way of getting Donna, Philipus, Artemis and all the others back?)

You know, before Flashpoint, these two actually could have worked.

The pre-Crisis WW lore had it that every woman really could become a Wonder Woman, with Amazon Training. There was a Marston issue with a Holliday College girl becoming truly superhuman after a little Amazon training, only when she decided to doff the heavy metal bracelets for flimsy plastic ones, she gave away her constant reminder of the need to keep oneself in check and started going off the rails.

And before Flashpoint, the Amazons were peaceful and truly did appreciate others, to the point of setting up Reform Island as a service to humanity.

[vaffrey]

She did for decades and it didnt sell.

Isn't the current book steadily dropping readers? Now 20K or so off from the first issue?

And the truth is, for quite some time WW wasn't written this way before the reboot.