Avengers Academy #29 *Spoilers*

**LeonardEugenius** · 05-02-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by ImmortalIronFist

Of course Cap's acting with the authority of the U.S. Government, the President is the one that put him in charge of National Security when it comes to super humans.

That's true, but that doesn't mean Cap can show up wherever he wants on a hunch. Police enforce the law and have authority, they still don't get to do whatever they want.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by dkostus

You are reading it completely without context. rhetorical questions are used in fiction.

If you have any on-panel information that shows they are working without the authority of the government please let me know.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

With big events you can never really know what is going on and who has permission to do what. Little details like that which should be in at least one panel often get overlooked in the quest for the big punch panel instead.

Mark_S

Thats true enough good Sir. I try to base that info on the fewest assumptions possible, but that still leaves ambiguity.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius

That's true, but that doesn't mean Cap can show up wherever he wants on a hunch. Police enforce the law and have authority, they still don't get to do whatever they want.

hmm actually it might very well mean he can! Everything we've seen seems to imply the Avengers have a LOT of leeway when it comes to exercising their authority. Especially in these kind of global crisises. Now its probably never been actually spelled out, I imagine a book like that would make for a dull read.

How is I am going to assume The Avengers may show up anywhere within US soil (And as discussed Utopia is likely disputed) and detain anyone they deem a threat until they can turn them over to Shield or the government. And that is an assumption just based on what we've seen in the past, so take it with a grain of salt.

I mean lets face it, would we even be having this conversation if Cap showed up on the Sinister Six's door step and a fight started?

**UserIDGoesHere** · 05-02-2012, 02:59 PM

Okay, I've read this entire thread and it doesn't seem like it's explained why the X-kids are cooperating. It seems wrong for most or all of these kids to submit to this so easily. Is it ever explained or just more out of character AvX behavior?

**Swashbuckler** · 05-02-2012, 03:02 PM

This issue was just OK in my opinion. For one, the art is awful. It needs toned way down. Second, it had way too many "cute" moments. Loa making earth waves? Lame. Tigra was a total bitch this issue. So evident she used to be a cop. Surge stole the show by basically telling them she needed to go watch the news to try and get briefed on what's happening. The Academy came off VERY poorly and after they just tried to kidnap the Runaways it's evident to see they don't want anyone making choices. It's a locked down facility no matter what bullshit they spew.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by UserIDGoesHere

Okay, I've read this entire thread and it doesn't seem like it's explained why the X-kids are cooperating. It seems wrong for most or all of these kids to submit to this so easily. Is it ever explained or just more out of character AvX behavior?

Well the Xkids don't really know whats going on, Captain America showed up on their island and Cyclops attacked him. Pretty soon there was a massive super human brawl and their friend Hope knocked a bunch of them unconscious and ran. They likely have very little information on whats going on. Next thing they know an entire force of Avengers, With Wolverine, is surrounding them asking them to come down to SoCal to a nice compound for a little while until things can be sorted out.

Makes sense to me that they might go along with it for the moment. Clearly some of them aren't too happy.

**dkostus** · 05-02-2012, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

If you have any on-panel information that shows they are working without the authority of the government please let me know.

I have on panel information that Iron Man doesn't believe Cap can charge the X-Men with anything, which is what I stated. Don't try and change the subject. The letterer specifically bolded the words "charge them" in "but exactly what are you planning to charge them with?" to express disbelief on Iron Man's part that Cap had any grounds.

Further, Cap himself mentions the U.N. and International Law, implying that he's working under the assumption that they are not on U.S. soil.

That is all the evidence necessary. But further than that, you have Iron Man's whole "you're beginning to sound like me."

But go ahead and be the Fox News of the board if you wish.

**Swashbuckler** · 05-02-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by UserIDGoesHere

Okay, I've read this entire thread and it doesn't seem like it's explained why the X-kids are cooperating. It seems wrong for most or all of these kids to submit to this so easily. Is it ever explained or just more out of character AvX behavior?

Cyclops probably instructed them too. They'll be out to help the X-Men by the end.

**Tiamatican** · 05-02-2012, 03:05 PM

Great issue, as always. As is usual with Gage, he tries to make both sides seem reasonable. The Avengers are trying to keep minors out of a big brawl, which is entirely justified. But the kids are also justified in their anger over the methods. So is Jeffries, who's also justified in being disgusted at the entire fight. The bonding moments between people on each side was really nice, as was the fact that not all the X-Men feel like making friends with their jailers. Laura telling off Wolverine was cool. Laura got a lot of good moments, here, actually. Her conversations with Dust and Finesse were both good. And I was glad to see Gage use Dust. I always liked her. I wish she got used more often, because she's cool.

And, of course, Shaw. He was cool. Great choice for a last page. I always love callbacks to the Wolverine-in-the-sewers moment. Gage probably didn't need to explain the reference, in the letters page, but I imagine he just wanted to gush about it, because the original panel was so awesome. It's been referenced occasionally with X-Men comics, but this is probably the first time it's been referenced in an Avengers comic. It was a great touch, though, and a great way of honouring the crossover. I also found it funny that Shaw apparently spent 8 hours whacking himself in the head with a book.

So, yeah. Awesome issue, as always. This and UXM #11 have been the best issues of AvX so far.

Also, despite what some have said about Grummett's art, I have to say, I do like how he draws Laura. She looks toned and fit. I like that he gives her more muscle definition than you normally see in female characters. Chest is probably larger than it should be, but it's comics, all women have huge boobs.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by dkostus

I have on panel information that Iron Man doesn't believe Cap can charge the X-Men with anything, which is what I stated. Don't try and change the subject. The letterer specifically bolded the words "charge them" in "but exactly what are you planning to charge them with?" to express disbelief on Iron Man's part that Cap had any grounds.

Further, Cap himself mentions the U.N. and International Law, implying that he's working under the assumption that they are not on U.S. soil.

That is all the evidence necessary. But further than that, you have Iron Man's whole "you're beginning to sound like me."

But go ahead and be the Fox News of the board if you wish.

Now who is reaching? Has anyone confirmed on panel that they are not working for the US government? Or that the government no longer supports Captain America in these affairs? When that happens please let me know.

**ExodusCloak** · 05-02-2012, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

hmm actually it might very well mean he can! Everything we've seen seems to imply the Avengers have a LOT of leeway when it comes to exercising their authority. Especially in these kind of global crisises. Now its probably never been actually spelled out, I imagine a book like that would make for a dull read.

How is I am going to assume The Avengers may show up anywhere within US soil (And as discussed Utopia is likely disputed) and detain anyone they deem a threat until they can turn them over to Shield or the government. And that is an assumption just based on what we've seen in the past, so take it with a grain of salt.

I mean lets face it, would we even be having this conversation if Cap showed up on the Sinister Six's door step and a fight started?

I have to agree, with the way Brevoort and co. have been talking about Steve that's really the only way to interpret it. Steve is Agent Brands boss apparently.

In any case Tony's conversation with Steve seems to imply that Utopia is outside US waters. And Agent Brand acknowledged their sovereignty.

**infernohara** · 05-02-2012, 03:07 PM

LOL. It certainly seemed that way. This looked more like a setup issue as Laura knows damn well that her and Dust were friends. I'm sure Surge is clouding her judgement though so all is forgiven.

I think the kids are easily swayed because they've been basically abandoned by the X-men. Not even a Cyclops search party or them even knowing that Wolverine snatched them up.

**dkostus** · 05-02-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

Now who is reaching? Has anyone confirmed on panel that they are not working for the US government? Or that the government no longer supports Captain America in these affairs? When that happens please let me know.

This responds to none of the points in my post. 1) That Iron Man confirms on panel that he does not believe that Cap has anything to charge them with, and 2) that Cap working for the US government is meaningless because he's operating under the assumption that this is foreign soil. This is an act of war, not a police function.

Now you're just obfuscating because you're wrong.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by dkostus

This responds to none of the points in my post. 1) That Iron Man confirms on panel that he does not believe that Cap has anything to charge them with, and 2) that Cap working for the US government is meaningless because he's operating under the assumption that this is foreign soil. This is an act of war, not a police function.

Now you're just obfuscating because you're wrong.

Im not responding to your 'points' because they are dumb.

Although I like the bit about it being foreign soil. I can't imagine any time in history the US government as authorized agents to cross into foreign soil and capture or kill a foreigner.

*cough*itshappenedbeforeinreallife*cough*