Avengers Academy #29 *Spoilers*

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Vic Vega

So Cap should nicely shoved off to Avengers Mansion and waited for the firebird to consume the planet, because Cyke told him to?

Cap's intel has the situation assesed as a major threat.

Wolverine told Cap that Cyke wasn't going to listen to reason and lo and behold he fired on the guy.

Remember Cap only wants to take Hope off planet

What if she doesn't want to go?

Mark_S

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

But shouldn't it be their choice?

Mark_S

Yes it should be, and short of quitting the AA they aren't really being given much of a choice in this.

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

Again though I agree no scene proves they are working on the government's behalf.

however it HIGHLY implies it and until we see something that contradicts that we have to assume they have the full backing of the government, they did have SHIELD backing them up after all, They did talk to the president about going and getting hope. They are wondering what things they can charge the x-men with if they are going to hold them. These are not the activities of a rogue super group, these are the activities of a government backed team. And until we see a scene that says something different, like the scene with the President during Siege, logic dictates that we assume that is the case.

If that is the case then what should the kids force to stay at the Academy think of the government that will permit the Avengers to go to their home and take someone who might not want to go? And then destroy that home when things go badly.

Mark_S

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

Yes it should be, and short of quitting the AA they aren't really being given much of a choice in this.

Yes, but at least they have that choice. The X-kids aren't even being given that. So there is a double standard, the AA kids can up and leave but the X-kids are prisoners.

Mark_S

**LeonardEugenius** · 05-02-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

Again though I agree no scene proves they are working on the government's behalf.

however it HIGHLY implies it and until we see something that contradicts that we have to assume they have the full backing of the government, they did have SHIELD backing them up after all, They did talk to the president about going and getting hope. They are wondering what things they can charge the x-men with if they are going to hold them. These are not the activities of a rogue super group, these are the activities of a government backed team. And until we see a scene that says something different, like the scene with the President during Siege, logic dictates that we assume that is the case.

They never tell the President they're going to get Hope. They're briefing the President on Nova and The Phoenix Force out in space, then Iron Man's "PF detector" goes off because Hope flares up on Utopia. There is no mention of Hope to the President. At that point they didn't know it was Hope. All they had was the location. Cap had to go ask Wolverine who the Phoenix was headed to Earth for after the meeting with the President. Cap made no mention of rounding up Hope to the President.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

If that is the case then what should the kids force to stay at the Academy think of the government that will permit the Avengers to go to their home and take someone who might not want to go? And then destroy that home when things go badly.

Mark_S

Well I'd argue the Avengers didn't destroy their home, Colossus damaged it when he juggied out and Magneto was tossing pieces around of it, but we didn't see much more of the damage than that.

But I'd imagine they'd be none to happy with it. And probably not fans at all. It might even foster some resentment, Over time some of the kids might come to think it was for the best, but I can't imagine many or all would.

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius

They never tell the President they're going to get Hope. They're briefing the President on Nova and The Phoenix Force out in space, then Iron Man's "PF detector" goes off because Hope flares up on Utopia. There is no mention of Hope to the President. At that point they didn't know it was Hope. All they had was the location. Cap had to go ask Wolverine who the Phoenix was headed to Earth for after the meeting with the President. Cap made no mention of rounding up Hope to the President.

They might have talked to him off panel. Right now I think we can go on the assumption that Cap has carte blanche to do what ever he wants to do. Hence his actions in this issue.

Mark_S

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius

They never tell the President they're going to get Hope. They're briefing the President on Nova and The Phoenix Force out in space, then Iron Man's "PF detector" goes off because Hope flares up on Utopia. There is no mention of Hope to the President. At that point they didn't know it was Hope. All they had was the location. Cap had to go ask Wolverine who the Phoenix was headed to Earth for after the meeting with the President. Cap made no mention of rounding up Hope to the President.

Okay fair enough, well when a scene comes up that says they aren't working on the authority of the government or if the government no longer decides to support the Avengers in this let me know I will gladly admit you are correct.

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

Well I'd argue the Avengers didn't destroy their home, Colossus damaged it when he juggied out and Magneto was tossing pieces around of it, but we didn't see much more of the damage than that.

But I'd imagine they'd be none to happy with it. And probably not fans at all. It might even foster some resentment, Over time some of the kids might come to think it was for the best, but I can't imagine many or all would.

It should inspire some anger too. If ever Cap or the Avengers need these kids help for any reason I can't see them giving it. Should be some anger and hate brewing in them.

Mark_S

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

It should inspire some anger too. If ever Cap or the Avengers need these kids help for any reason I can't see them giving it. Should be some anger and hate brewing in them.

Mark_S

Yeah I'd imagine so. The on the other hand I think Cap made the right call putting them there, in a relatively out of the compound ran by Avengers. (though as the reader whose seen the solicits we know it won't be out of the way for long).

But the very act of dumping them there and telling them they can't leave will lead to some of the students deciding to stand against the Avengers. Although many might not form an opinion yet until they see more of what the X-men and Avengers are doing. Can't imagine the Avengers making enemies of the Jean Grey school will further endear them to the mutants. That would make it much more of a Avengers vs Mutants thing then an Avengers versus Cyclops thing.

**ImmortalIronFist** · 05-02-2012, 02:42 PM

Of course Cap's acting with the authority of the U.S. Government, the President is the one that put him in charge of National Security when it comes to super humans.

**The_Ronin** · 05-02-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by ImmortalIronFist

Of course Cap's acting with the authority of the U.S. Government, the President is the one that put him in charge of National Security when it comes to super humans.

Originally Posted by Mark_S

They might have talked to him off panel. Right now I think we can go on the assumption that Cap has carte blanche to do what ever he wants to do. Hence his actions in this issue.

Mark_S

See, I kind of just assumed that was all a given.

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

See, I kind of just assumed that was all a given.

With big events you can never really know what is going on and who has permission to do what. Little details like that which should be in at least one panel often get overlooked in the quest for the big punch panel instead.

Mark_S

**Mark_S** · 05-02-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

Yeah I'd imagine so. The on the other hand I think Cap made the right call putting them there, in a relatively out of the compound ran by Avengers. (though as the reader whose seen the solicits we know it won't be out of the way for long).

But the very act of dumping them there and telling them they can't leave will lead to some of the students deciding to stand against the Avengers. Although many might not form an opinion yet until they see more of what the X-men and Avengers are doing. Can't imagine the Avengers making enemies of the Jean Grey school will further endear them to the mutants. That would make it much more of a Avengers vs Mutants thing then an Avengers versus Cyclops thing.

It should at least make some of the X-kids wonder if Scott and Magneto are right in their views on humanity. How would the original X-men have reacted if someone came in, trashed the school and shoved them into some government approved school instead?

Mark_S

**dkostus** · 05-02-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

um no, I quoted his exact words and pointed out only someone operating with the government's backing would be concerned with what they would charge the X-men with. I reached so far I actually touched the book and quoted! crazy!

Adding "deal with it" to your post does not make your argument more convincing.

But hey! if you have a scene that proves the avengers went off the reservation on this and is acting in defiance of the government please post it! I might of missed it, you never know!

You are reading it completely without context. rhetorical questions are used in fiction.