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  1. #46
    Choke LeonardEugenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    As far as US law goes the Avengers probably are in the legal right here. (though if ordered to stand down by the united states they would have to, or they'd be renegade)
    I'm not sure if they'e in the legal right. Iron Man points out to Cap that he can't charge them with anything in AvX 3.

  2. #47
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius View Post
    I'm not sure if they'e in the legal right. Iron Man points out to Cap that he can't charge them with anything in AvX 3.
    The government doesn't have to charge persons with crime to take them into custody, they have to charge them with a crime to hold them for any length of time though. The minors can be held longer until foster care is found for them, or someone decides on the status of their current guardians.

    Now if arrested for no good reason the arrestee might be able to sue for wrongful arrest, but thats another mater entirely.

  3. #48
    Elder Member CMBMOOL's Avatar
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    Cap's just sore that he tricked and lost the fight with X-men and also how Cyclops is one step ahead of him in this event, but I thinking that Cyclops will slip up in the second act.

  4. #49
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    It appears the United States considers Utopia their territory. The X-men no doubt disagree but that is why some territory is 'disputed'.

    And while its debatable they certain have a good case in an international court to make at any rate as it is well with in their territorial waters. Even if the X-men claimed otherwise I think we are supposed to believe that not many in the international community would champion their cause at the moment. Schism showed the mutants were not considered friends by many in the international community.

    As far as US law goes the Avengers probably are in the legal right here. (though if ordered to stand down by the united states they would have to, or they'd be renegade)
    If Utopia was in international waters, they could have a case for soverinty(sp) but they arent.

  5. #50
    The curious one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    The government doesn't have to charge persons with crime to take them into custody, they have to charge them with a crime to hold them for any length of time though. The minors can be held longer until foster care is found for them, or someone decides on the status of their current guardians.

    Now if arrested for no good reason the arrestee might be able to sue for wrongful arrest, but thats another mater entirely.
    The kids could be there for years, decades. Cap is basically operating under the 'who ever can hit the hardest can do what he wants' theory of government. At least Hercules promised the kids that they wouldn't be tortured.

    Mark_S

  6. #51
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    If Utopia was in international waters, they could have a case for soverinty(sp) but they arent.
    Indeed, and they can still claim themselves independent, and ultimately if they were able to enforce their sovereignty with their muscle they might very well be sovereign but being at the mouth of San Francisco bay makes that case much weaker. Plus as pointed out the International community doesn't exactly like them. If they were the darlings of the world they might have a better chance of getting people to support them.

  7. #52
    Choke LeonardEugenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    The government doesn't have to charge persons with crime to take them into custody, they have to charge them with a crime to hold them for any length of time though. The minors can be held longer until foster care is found for them, or someone decides on the status of their current guardians.

    Now if arrested for no good reason the arrestee might be able to sue for wrongful arrest, but thats another mater entirely.
    I think the fact that they could sue for wrongful arrest would undo any claims to be in the right as far as legality is concerned. A cop can show up to my house and forcefully arrest me, but if they can't charge me with anything than they weren't in the legal right. Just like Iron Man says, they could lock them up but they can't charge them, therefore they wouldn't be in the legal right. That's just how I interpreted it. I am by no means a Professor of Criminal Justice.

  8. #53
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    The kids could be there for years, decades. Cap is basically operating under the 'who ever can hit the hardest can do what he wants' theory of government. At least Hercules promised the kids that they wouldn't be tortured.

    Mark_S
    "Who ever can hit the hardest" is ultimately the only source of international law there is.

    That said we see no indication that Cap wants anything from the children other than to keep them out of the fighting.

  9. #54
    The curious one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quillero View Post
    Some Avengers fans are missing their calling if they don't send their CV's to Fox News. Man, what a way to spin things.
    While the Avengers side can send theirs to msnbc.

    Mark_S

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    "Who ever can hit the hardest" is ultimately the only source of international law there is.

    That said we see no indication that Cap wants anything from the children other than to keep them out of the fighting.
    So far. If they become useful in the future though... bait? Inside intel on what Scott may be planning... The only limit here is Caps' character and that has taken a bit of a beating so far. I can't imagine why any of them would trust him.

    Mark_S

  11. #56
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius View Post
    I think the fact that they could sue for wrongful arrest would undo any claims to be in the right as far as legality is concerned. A cop can show up to my house and forcefully arrest me, but if they can't charge me with anything than they weren't in the legal right. Just like Iron Man says, they could lock them up but they can't charge them, therefore they wouldn't be in the legal right. That's just how I interpreted it. I am by no means a Professor of Criminal Justice.
    Yes, but if a firefight with the government just occurred on your front lawn then your wrongful arrest case would be awfully weak. And nobody would argue from a legal stand point that the police were out of line to take everyone in. Especially any kids who might of been hiding behind your couch while the fighting was going on.

    Now if you were sitting at home reading a book by an unpopular political author and the police bust your door down and took you in, then sure they would be way out of line.

  12. #57
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    So far. If they become useful in the future though... bait? Inside intel on what Scott may be planning... The only limit here is Caps' character and that has taken a bit of a beating so far. I can't imagine why any of them would trust him.

    Mark_S
    Nobody is expecting the kids to trust Captain America. And when Cap decides to use them as Bait, or torture them for intel you can argue that. Until then its just speculation.

  13. #58

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    pretty good issue.

    kinda surprised that Nori and Laura were talking off panel. Nori always seemed to hate her. Laura only seemed to get along with Dust, Mercury, and Hellion back in the NXM days

    and speaking of Laura, her eyes are the wrong color.... again

  14. #59
    Elder Member DeadXMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    While the Avengers side can send theirs to msnbc.

    Mark_S

    Why? they need people to see it...... ( which also means CNN is out of the question)
    Cyclops ad portas

  15. #60
    The curious one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ronin View Post
    Nobody is expecting the kids to trust Captain America. And when Cap decides to use them as Bait, or torture them for intel you can argue that. Until then its just speculation.
    True, but this a big event and Marvel is running it. I remember thinking that Tony would have limits in cw and it turned out he didn't. While I truly don't expect Cap to be as bad as Tony I find it best to be prepared for the worst. So far I think that Gage is putting the softest spin he can on on all of this, but as Surge said the kids are in prison for something they didn't do. It's a nice prison but if you can't leave a place it is a prison. Since Cap has started this event by putting kids in prison I wonder where it'll end. This is marvel, I have no faith that the writers will hold anyone in power to a moral standard.

    Mark_S

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