What if Hope really DID turn out to be Jean?

[Stopu]

Hope isn't Wanda's daughter. Hope is a PF fragment incarnate.

I really don't understand you. First you say Hope is a fragment of Jean (repulsive for both Jean and Hope fans), and now you say she is a Phoenix fragment, which is pretty much the general implicit idea around.
Phoenix is not Jean (anymore):

[Henry T.]

Even though AvX has mentioned Jean and Rachel in some of the issues, the recap page in New Avengers 26 acts like the first time the Phoenix came to Earth it bonded with Fongji and its just now coming back to bond with Hope.

Fongji was the prelude/harbinger/ancestor/whatever to Hope and Jean and Rachel don't even rate.

And they wonder why some fans are getting confused and think that a lot of Phoenix history is getting retconned over.

[xhx23x]

Even though AvX has mentioned Jean and Rachel in some of the issues, the recap page in New Avengers 26 acts like the first time the Phoenix came to Earth it bonded with Fongji and its just now coming back to bond with Hope.

Fongji was the prelude/harbinger/ancestor/whatever to Hope and Jean and Rachel don't even rate.

And they wonder why some fans are getting confused and think that a lot of Phoenix history is getting retconned over.

I don't think this retcon is that bad. At least for what little I understand of it. It just seems to set prescedent to Hope without really adressing the Jean of it all. It gives them the ability to make Hope's PHoenix connection her own while simultenously giving Iron Fist something new to play with. However, till this particular plot hits the main AvX books, it doesn't seem like it will be that relevant to the X-line or Hope.

No one's denying Hope was meant to be Jean, but it makes far more sense to keep them two seperate, prefferably not related, entities now, so I'm all for whatever enforces this and when/if Jean returns, she can do in a story that's all about her.

[Phoenix Egg]

This is a pretty bad retcon. Pretty much shoots down the Rachel/Jean Phoenix stories.

And for what?

Just to be doing it.



Not that it matters in the long run. Someone will fix it.

[xhx23x]

This is a pretty bad retcon. Pretty much shoots down the Rachel/Jean Phoenix stories.

And for what?

Just to be doing it.



Not that it matters in the long run. Someone will fix it.

how does it shoot it down? I thought all they said so far is that the Phoenix manifested in some redhead years ago, or am I missing something?

[Henry T.]

Jean was suppose to be the first human that the Phoenix bonded with. Feron was a mystical guy that encountered it but he wasn't an avatar. Rookshir was Shiar and had the blue Phoenix.

But Jean was suppose to be the first human from Earth that truly merged with it and wielded it. This was stated many times in early Excalibur and even in X-Men True Friends II and other places.

The Phoenix came to Rachel and Maddie because it thought they were Jean.

Now one might say that the Phoenix came to Jean, Rachel, Maddie, and Hope because they have similar features to Fongji.

[darknessatnoon]

This is just like when we first learned about Hope. You Phoenix fans circled the wagons and pulled out the guns. Same for poor Fongji.

[Henry T.]

Fongji also seems to be half White Phoenix, again usurping another one of Jean's distinctions.

[darknessatnoon]

Fongji also seems to be half White Phoenix, again usurping another one of Jean's distinctions.

We don't know her race. We know very little about the Phoenix. We don't even know whether Hope's father was black or mexican.

[Phoenix Egg]

The Phoenix only interacted with Jean and Rachel because it was looking for Fongji.

It's just one of those things some future writer will feel duty-bound to correct.

[darknessatnoon]

The Phoenix interacted with Jean and Rachel because it was looking for Fongji.

It's just one of those things some future writer will feel duty-bound to correct.

I'm sure the Phoenix knew that Fongji was dead (wait, IS she dead). Perhaps, it thought that Jean might have learned the martial arts skills to control it. It's not Fongji's fault that Jean was a spoiled suburban brat.

[Phoenix Egg]

I'm sure the Phoenix knew that Fongji was dead (wait, IS she dead). Perhaps, it thought that Jean might have learned the martial arts skills to control it. It's not Fongji's fault that Jean was a spoiled suburban brat.

Now she's a spoiled suburban brat who was only a random toy for the Phoenix, not unlike the Cuckoos were.


How this enriches rather than detracts, I dunno.

[Spider-Dragon]

I really don't understand you. First you say Hope is a fragment of Jean (repulsive for both Jean and Hope fans), and now you say she is a Phoenix fragment, which is pretty much the general implicit idea around.
Phoenix is not Jean (anymore):

You know despite what happened before Jean when it comes to the Phoenix doesn't mean Jean still isn't the Phoenix now.

Technically what's being revealed now is untold info about the Phoenix being spliced into what we already know...it's not really retconning anything because I read that everything about the Phoenix history is still canon.

Marvel isn't that stupid to throw Jean Grey in the trash and never use her again.

She's going to return and since she's best known for being connected to the Phoenix this event will likely be her return.

If Marvel doesn't deliver Jean Grey's return via this event like they've been appearing to build to all this time then they will end up pissing off quite a few fans...and Marvel can't really afford to do that. Especially since they already did that once already via undoing Peter and Mary Jane's marriage in OMD.

[xhx23x]

how would it be a lost for marvel? They have been pretty blatant about how Jean isn't part of the story. From Hope effectively stating to Scott that this is her story not Jean's, to several interviews and comments from creators saying that Jean is not involve or downplaying the Jean factor. So they're either lying to get a big twist, or just telling people not to get their hopes up about something they have no interest in revisiting at the moment.

People can hope (stupid pun) Jean comes back this event, but they can't say marvel is marketing it as Jean's big come back.

[Spider-Dragon]

how would it be a lost for marvel? They have been pretty blatant about how Jean isn't part of the story. From Hope effectively stating to Scott that this is her story not Jean's, to several interviews and comments from creators saying that Jean is not involve or downplaying the Jean factor. So they're either lying to get a big twist, or just telling people not to get their hopes up about something they have no interest in revisiting at the moment.

People can hope (stupid pun) Jean comes back this event, but they can't say marvel is marketing it as Jean's big come back.

Let's put it this way...if Jean Grey doesn't return in this event when it's the perfect time for it then likely she will never return.