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  1. #61
    Junior Member superfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    It's a cautionary tale for 'us'. The Superman of Earth 0 is 'our' Superman, DC is going to brand that character in such a way as to most appeal to what we want, or at least what we think we want. So it's time to grow up, or maybe remember our childhood, and believe again in pure good and right and virtue.
    great thought. some of us are right there...but the only recourse we have is to disassociate. voting with your wallet and alla that. some of us are yearning for a better Superman. i see one clearly in this issue and it gives hope for one emerging under Morrison's hand.

    I think he's saying that this is what HIS Superman is going to GROW into it.
    emphasis yours. so glad you enlisted the possessive 'HIS.'

    [speculative]could you imagine a greater obstacle in accomplishing this task holistically with a possible Lobdell-penned Superman solo title?[/speculative]

    some great input Desaad. greatly enjoyed your contribution to this discussion. aside from the pure resonance this issue gave me on almost every level (emotionally, rationally, aesthetically), Morrison's transcendent ability to leverage DC's IP as myth and commentary to evoke an almost embarrassingly savvy portion of his reader base toward heady and constructive thought just fills me with an almost-mirth.

    comics done right?

  2. #62
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    On another level entirely, I think he's hinting at a number of things here; the Teetotal Man as a transformative figure in the lives of every iteration of Superman across a multi-verse.

    What I'm thinking is that he's a modern version of C.W. Saturn, and that exists across the multiverse as someone who is trying to corrupt the ultimate good -- which we all know to be the idea of Superman.
    I had similar thoughts as I read it, too.

    So he nurtures the development of the idea, but in such a way as suits him. In this world, he turned the purely good Superman created by Clark, Lois and Jimmy (whose morals made them weep) into SuperDoom (success!). [/quote]

    Actually, their version only lasted for 20 minutes. He corrupted a 'revised' version created by the 500.

    In our universe, he presumably is trying to systematically demoralize Superman, rather than actually kill him, by destroying Suicide Slum (via GlenMorgan), and I suspect the installation of the Brainiac program as an aid from the 2-parter (unless anyone can think of a more plausibly negative thing that came out of that -- I know Brainiac currently seems benevolent, but Morrison tends to recycle his ideas a bit, and this is just the set up we had in Earth 2 until Brainiac was revealed to be the mastermind villain).
    I'm not sure if it was (will be) an 'intentional corruption', an 'anticipated side-effect' (which would still make it intentional, of course), or 'unanticipated' but I think the period without the engine provided it power had an adverse effect on the rocket's AI, but that won't come to light until, probably, 'now' (as in around 6 years after the event).

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Actually, their version only lasted for 20 minutes. He corrupted a 'revised' version created by the 500.
    That's sort of quibbling about irrelevant details. He corrupted their IDEA of Superman into something different, populist, dark. SuperDoom was meant to be a permanent version of their Superman, but that isn't what happened.



    I'm not sure if it was (will be) an 'intentional corruption', an 'anticipated side-effect' (which would still make it intentional, of course), or 'unanticipated' but I think the period without the engine provided it power had an adverse effect on the rocket's AI, but that won't come to light until, probably, 'now' (as in around 6 years after the event).
    But this is a creature who exists all across time and space, so he's not going to complain about 6 years, I suspect.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by superfriend View Post
    great thought. some of us are right there...but the only recourse we have is to disassociate. voting with your wallet and alla that. some of us are yearning for a better Superman. i see one clearly in this issue and it gives hope for one emerging under Morrison's hand.



    emphasis yours. so glad you enlisted the possessive 'HIS.'

    [speculative]could you imagine a greater obstacle in accomplishing this task holistically with a possible Lobdell-penned Superman solo title?[/speculative]

    some great input Desaad. greatly enjoyed your contribution to this discussion. aside from the pure resonance this issue gave me on almost every level (emotionally, rationally, aesthetically), Morrison's transcendent ability to leverage DC's IP as myth and commentary to evoke an almost embarrassingly savvy portion of his reader base toward heady and constructive thought just fills me with an almost-mirth.

    comics done right?

    Thanks kindly.

    And yeah, this is definitely comics done right.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    That's sort of quibbling about irrelevant details. He corrupted their IDEA of Superman into something different, populist, dark. SuperDoom was meant to be a permanent version of their Superman, but that isn't what happened.
    I know what you mean but, from what I understood, they weren't a party to the 'public launch' of the Superman concept. They provided the template and how to do certain things but their direct influence was then taken out of the equation. I think it may have started out along the lines of what they hoped but then changed to what the world 'wanted'.




    But this is a creature who exists all across time and space, so he's not going to complain about 6 years, I suspect.
    Exactly. Multi-dimensional long-term planning. Sure, he gets annoyed when 'nothing works' but he just moves on to the next attempt. After all, he only really needs to get it 'right' just once...

    (Which swings back round to 'the never-ending battle').

  6. #66
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    I re-read it this issue and noted tw0 things:
    First, the similarity between the Superdoom' brand similar to a svastic cross, right there hide in plain sight.
    And the death of the innocence, in the massacre of the little people. (the same from Superman/Batman 51-52).
    Nobody had said nothing about these, so...

  7. #67
    Veteran Member El Sombrero's Avatar
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    Great issue. President Superman is totally awesome and I really hope they do an Earth Prime and Earth 23 crossover issue where Clark (regular Clark) has a team up with President Superman. I also thought this was Sholly's best backup so far and I think he has improved by a good deal with each backup...I thought his first backup (the Steel one) was pretty bad, but the Kents ones were a lot better, and I really liked this. Ha and Hamner are both superb artists so this was all win.

    Given how popular that one Obama Spider-Man issue was, I really don't think it would be a bad idea if DC just made President Superman the Superman that appears in the main Superman title. They clearly have no idea what to do with that book and I think that would be a cool idea. Of course you'd need to get a decent writer to write the thing but at least that would be a good direction IMO.
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  8. #68
    Senior Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    And the death of the innocence, in the massacre of the little people. (the same from Superman/Batman 51-52).
    Nobody had said nothing about these, so...
    I'm glad someone else noticed that. I hope that's not Morrison saying he didn't dig that story, though. I thought it was fun.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Garland View Post
    I'm glad someone else noticed that. I hope that's not Morrison saying he didn't dig that story, though. I thought it was fun.
    I don't think so. I think it's set up for a happy end; same as the Zoo Crew in Final Crisis (I know Morrison didn't set that up in Final Crisis itself, but apparently the ending was kind of mandated, so either Morrison planned it all along or worked it out to his own satisfaction).
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  10. #70
    Junior Member Nayrman's Avatar
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    Hard to believe but this Superman is making even less of an effort to disguise himself than Clark is in "our" universe. Oy.

    I liked the issue overall but it was a wicked change of pace from what just happened in the previous issue to me.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayrman View Post

    I liked the issue overall but it was a wicked change of pace from what just happened in the previous issue to me.
    Yes? And?


  12. #72
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Badass. Loved all the meta-stuff intertwined with a plain fun story.

    And the connection to the main continuity story is present as I thought it would be: The Little Man is the owner of the company that bought the Superman idea. This cat is everywhere.
    WOW. I did not notice that until now.

    Quote Originally Posted by drinkblatzbeer View Post
    is this arc that seems to be developing a precursor to multiversity?
    The Superdoom part? Probably not? Will Calvin be part of that Multiversity story? I could see it, yeah.

  13. #73
    ❤ Walking with thee ❤ Ian Pressman's Avatar
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    Oh God, Poor Earth 23 Lex. Not only constantly thumped by the man of tomorrow, but because he's a skin-head by design, he has to defend himself against accusations of racism!

    Awesome read. Just good times.
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  14. #74
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    The Superdoom part? Probably not? Will Calvin be part of that Multiversity story? I could see it, yeah.
    Why not? At the moment it's merely 'an idea that's been tuned out', but if the Little Man can get enough people to will the idea back again...




    Using, for example, the fears of the worlds it ravaged as it flitted through the multiverse, the Little Man could, conceivably, add to Superdoom's power...


  15. #75
    Senior Member Theozilla's Avatar
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    Wow, this issue simply blew me away. Both the main-story and back-up story were great. Really happy that the Final Crisis concepts are making a reappearance. Can't say much more than what most people have already said here. Loved the Little Man's appearance and Luthor's "I'm not racist". Chuckled at the Vathlo Island reference to old continuity. Can definitely tell that this issue will be more than just a stand-alone issue.

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