Amazing Spider-Man #685 *SPOILERS*

[tigerkaya]

Damn pairing wars. Can't they discuss their pointless "who should Peter bang" debate in another thread.

[Xenon]

@Xenon, That's what i mean, people treat peter dating anyone other then mj as a dating contest, who is gonna be next. But peter has dated before during lee era without the expectation he was gonna drop out of the relationship for mj, so why assume peter will go back to mj at ALL ?

Because he will. Why assume Superman ends up with Lois Lane? Because he will. There's too much history, too many fans, and too much crap has bee done at this point for it to be anyone else.

PLUS, while we're at it, though I've said this before, the dating contest doesn't have its roots in when will he reunite with Mary Jane, but because OMD exposed the formula as meaning that everything will end in failiure. When you publish one of the worst comics ever to reach a certain status quo, you very clearly establish that that status quo is off-limits. Hence, every single relationship is temporary, and we know its temprorary, because of what they went through to get to the single status.

And that goes to my first point i was trying to make, people think any relationship won't matter cos peter will/must return to mj no matter what becouse she is more popular, has been in more media, has more face recognition with the public. So i ask, what if peter dated a completely new character, this crippled botanic in my example, and this relationship lasted real life 20-30 years of comics,wouldnt said botanic essentially become the new mj ? who would remember mj then ?
She would be the new face recognition in the public mind, so why hold things back with expectation toward a return of the same, something everyone here complains about and topic of many thread drifts ?
Carlie suffered from this,i mean yeah, she suffered more from diferent writers taking her in diferent direction or not used at all, BUT everyone "knew" Carlie was a shoehorn stand in while we await the royal return of her majesty mj.No matter what character they had used in that situation people would still not like her and treat her the same way while waiting for mj.And it seemed the writers got afraid and went for that,sorta.

I'm with Kevin on this one. What you suggest simply won't happen at this point. To even attempt such a thing you'd have to get an unbroken chain of keeping Mary Jane out of the comic for twenty years, and even then, the "new" love interest would still have less time. I don't go as far as Kevin in that I think that a new universe could lead to a new love interest,but as long as we're working on the history of the 616, She's the one.

The days of that kind of consistency are long past.

Look at it like some random filler episode of any random anime and just ignore it. It was obvious when it happened that it would bare no impact on what Dan wanted to do.

This attitude. Again, it's like the quality of the food drops, and you just are like "meh, whatever". Why not try and get the better food back?

I mean come on! It's been less than ten issues!

The only women we've seen Peter interact with over the last batch of issues of Amazing are Mary Jane and Julia Carpenter. (And we all know how Dan feels about Peter dating a superheroine.) We don't even see Peter interacting with Aunt May these days.

Certainly, but we don't see any significant interaction with any of them. They'd be no less random than Betty or Carol.

The dating do-si-do really came around after Wolfman broke up Peter and MJ. And that lasted until the wedding. (How can anyone explain his on-again/off-again thing with Felicia?)

It didn't really exist. Peter and Felicia were together until Spectacular 100, and they never officially dated again. They may or may not have slept together as part of Foreigner's plan, but that is unclear, and even at the time, it wasn't really treated as them being back together. Peter was really truly single for a very small window between MJ refusing the proposal and him dating Black Cat, there was another window after he broke up with the Black Cat until he got married, though this second window is more of a technicality, as MJ had already returned to prominence by this point.

[One More Day]

Back to the actual comic and story...does no one on Horizon care that Peter Parker is AWOL yet again?!

[tigerkaya]

Strange how Sabra took out those Octo Bots with just duel pistols. Doesn't she have powers. And that costume, seems like someone just looked at Madam Mask's for reference. Pretty lazy on editorial's part. Otherwise great issue much better than last issue.

[Kevinroc]

Because he will. Why assume Superman ends up with Lois Lane? Because he will. There's too much history, too many fans, and too much crap has bee done at this point for it to be anyone else.

PLUS, while we're at it, though I've said this before, the dating contest doesn't have its roots in when will he reunite with Mary Jane, but because OMD exposed the formula as meaning that everything will end in failiure. When you publish one of the worst comics ever to reach a certain status quo, you very clearly establish that that status quo is off-limits. Hence, every single relationship is temporary, and we know its temprorary, because of what they went through to get to the single status.

I agree with this. People seem to think I'm saying the next time Peter and MJ get back together means I think they will be together forever. I know they won't. And there will be "other" love interests. But they won't be "THE" love interest.

I'm with Kevin on this one. What you suggest simply won't happen at this point. To even attempt such a thing you'd have to get an unbroken chain of keeping Mary Jane out of the comic for twenty years, and even then, the "new" love interest would still have less time. I don't go as far as Kevin in that I think that a new universe could lead to a new love interest,but as long as we're working on the history of the 616, She's the one.

I don't really see it as such because of titles like Ultimate Spider-Man, which very strongly promoted Peter/MJ. There are exceptions but they tend to be more or less short stories and end up being blips on the radar. (Although some of them are very good.)

I only say this because Mary Jane is typically the love interest in a number of the cartoons, the original Sam Raimi films (no matter what happens with the "Amazing" films, they will always be "the other Spider-Man films" and in the shadow of Raimi's films), the video games (even in the height of Peter/Carlie, we had MJ as Peter's love interest in Edge of Time), the Broadway musical, etc. Not to mention all the years in the actual mainstream comics themselves.

I think MJ is too ingrained as Spidey's love interest at this point that I don't think any kind of "continuity reboot" will change that.

This attitude. Again, it's like the quality of the food drops, and you just are like "meh, whatever". Why not try and get the better food back?

I mean come on! It's been less than ten issues!

Because, end of the day, stuff like this is just a blip on the radar. It doesn't even matter now. It's like a filler episode of some random anime.

Certainly, but we don't see any significant interaction with any of them. They'd be no less random than Betty or Carol.

Well, Dan did call the scene with Peter and MJ in #679 a "date."

It didn't really exist. Peter and Felicia were together until Spectacular 100, and they never officially dated again. They may or may not have slept together as part of Foreigner's plan, but that is unclear, and even at the time, it wasn't really treated as them being back together. Peter was really truly single for a very small window between MJ refusing the proposal and him dating Black Cat, there was another window after he broke up with the Black Cat until he got married, though this second window is more of a technicality, as MJ had already returned to prominence by this point.

Been awhile since I checked that era out. Maybe I'm confusing the stuff from Ultimate (Peter is with MJ, now he isn't. Now he is. Now he's with Kitty. Now he's back with MJ. Now he's with Gwen. Now he's back with MJ) or the Spectacular cartoon.

[One More Day]

Thought this was a great issue though I didn't care for the torture part. That is not the norm for Spidey, an exception at times but definitely not the norm. I found myself wishing that he had not been part of it,though I did get the need for it, it just seemed to go against most of Spidey's history concerning actions like this. Sable should of locked him in a different room while she interrogated Sandman or something a long those lines.

I'm leaning towards the half the planet being destroyed thing being an illusion/trick of some sort as others have mentioned. But overall a solid issue, A- in my book!

Schmed, glad to see you are still reading the book and around

If its not an illusion, I wonder if Sable will blame this on Spidey afterwards and maybe a dissolution of their previous cordial friendship?

Strange how Sabra took out those Octo Bots with just duel pistols. Doesn't she have powers. And that costume, seems like someone just looked at Madam Mask's for reference. Pretty lazy on editorial's part. Otherwise great issue much better than last issue.

Maybe that will be rectified in the ENDS OF THE EARTH one shot on sale next week

[MagSeven]

Schmed, glad to see you are still reading the book and around

If its not an illusion, I wonder if Sable will blame this on Spidey afterwards and maybe a dissolution of their previous cordial friendship?

Don't she why she would as Spidey was seemingly the ONLY one on Earth trying to stop Ock.

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

Well, it really comes down to MJ vs. a character that they have no intention of reviving or a completely new character to come out of nowhere and swoop in and become THE preeminent love interest of the Spider-Man franchise after 50 years into it.

Exactly. The only other person who even comes close to Mary Jane in terms of significance to Peter's life is Gwen, who is best known for getting tossed off a bridge and killed by a guy dressed in a goblin costume. Everybody has a favorite MJ moment; who actually has a favorite Gwen moment? That time she told Peter he looked good in his red boe-tie and brushed some dirt off his shoulder? Gwen is far more important, not just to Spider-Man but to comics in general (her death literally changed the way comics were written forever) dead than alive, which leads to another thing I don't get: proponents of Gwen's return, which would basically be the point of no return for almost any sane fan.

[ViewtifulJC]

Back to the actual comic and story...does no one on Horizon care that Peter Parker is AWOL yet again?!

Peter told Max he has to help Spider-Man, so I guess Modell assumes Peter is off helping him.

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

Don't she why she would as Spidey was seemingly the ONLY one on Earth trying to stop Ock.

Yeah, if there's one thing that Mr. Slott has hammered home regarding Sable so far in this arc, it's that she is behind Spidey one-hundred percent. In fact, she's probably be in front of Spidey, or on top of, or below Spidey one-hundred percent too (oooooh I'm nasty!)

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

Peter told Max he has to help Spider-Man, so I guess Modell assumes Peter is off helping him.

Yeah, I just assume that whenever Spidey is prominently involved attempting to stop some Earth-shattering crisis, it's assumed that Peter will be somewhere close by, providing tech and support. Normally I would think it was ridiculous that a supposed think tank full of geniuses wouldn't notice that Peter dissapears every single time Spider-Man is active, except for the fact that...well....every person who works in a lab at Horizon saw Peter and Spider-Man standing next to each other towards the end of Spider-Island (Kaine, wearing Peter's suit). That alone, as Mr. Slott said in another thread, should push any suspicion past Peter for the moment.

[Xenon]

I only say this because Mary Jane is typically the love interest in a number of the cartoons, the original Sam Raimi films (no matter what happens with the "Amazing" films, they will always be "the other Spider-Man films" and in the shadow of Raimi's films), the video games (even in the height of Peter/Carlie, we had MJ as Peter's love interest in Edge of Time), the Broadway musical, etc. Not to mention all the years in the actual mainstream comics themselves.

I think MJ is too ingrained as Spidey's love interest at this point that I don't think any kind of "continuity reboot" will change that.

We've done this like four times now, so I'll just say the sample size is too small to make those kind of proclamations.

Been awhile since I checked that era out. Maybe I'm confusing the stuff from Ultimate (Peter is with MJ, now he isn't. Now he is. Now he's with Kitty. Now he's back with MJ. Now he's with Gwen. Now he's back with MJ) or the Spectacular cartoon.

This is another one of those things like the line Darth Vader says when he reveals Luke's parentage. The wrong thing has become common knowledge. That was what I was expecting from the Black Cat relationship as well, but it's stimply not there. While the two fo them express some attraction for each other in her first few appearences, it's not until "The Final Battle" that they actual become a couple, and once they break up they never really get back together, though the possibility is flirted with right before his proposal to Mary Jane.

Exactly. The only other person who even comes close to Mary Jane in terms of significance to Peter's life is Gwen, who is best known for getting tossed off a bridge and killed by a guy dressed in a goblin costume. Everybody has a favorite MJ moment; who actually has a favorite Gwen moment? That time she told Peter he looked good in his red boe-tie and brushed some dirt off his shoulder? Gwen is far more important, not just to Spider-Man but to comics in general (her death literally changed the way comics were written forever) dead than alive, which leads to another thing I don't get: proponents of Gwen's return, which would basically be the point of no return for almost any sane fan.

I'm torn between the time she torn into the protestor right after thinking the same thing about Peter and the time she tore into aunt May for coddling him.

Yeah, I just assume that whenever Spidey is prominently involved attempting to stop some Earth-shattering crisis, it's assumed that Peter will be somewhere close by, providing tech and support. Normally I would think it was ridiculous that a supposed think tank full of geniuses wouldn't notice that Peter dissapears every single time Spider-Man is active, except for the fact that...well....every person who works in a lab at Horizon saw Peter and Spider-Man standing next to each other towards the end of Spider-Island (Kaine, wearing Peter's suit). That alone, as Mr. Slott said in another thread, should push any suspicion past Peter for the moment.

Also remember that Horizon is on a boat. If Peter missed the boat, well, he missed the boat.

[The_Ronin]

I am digging AVX, but once again Dan Slot has crafted a spider-man story that seems to beat out the big event in both quality and scope. Kudos Mr. Slott!

[Darthfury78]

Yeah, if there's one thing that Mr. Slott has hammered home regarding Sable so far in this arc, it's that she is behind Spidey one-hundred percent. In fact, she's probably be in front of Spidey, or on top of, or below Spidey one-hundred percent too (oooooh I'm nasty!)

Don't forget about The Black Widow also as she now has full confidence in Spidey's leadership skills. Although, I hope she gets some increased interaction with Spider-Man in issue 686 and 687. It's my hope that The Black Widow and Spider-Man would become friends because I seriously doubt that things will be the same between them after this. The Black Widow doesn't have a lot of close friends. And the two people who could be part of her social circle are Spider-Man and Silver Sable. It would be cool to see The Black Widow and Silver Sable establish a close friendship and work together. In conclusion, The Black Widow would make for an interesting alternate crime fighting partner(to The Black Cat) for Spider-Man on occasion.

Does anyone else feels that Spidey's recent actions against The Sinister Six might helped to dispel all doubts that The Black Widow has about Spider-Man's leadership skills and personality?

[Kevinroc]

We've done this like four times now, so I'll just say the sample size is too small to make those kind of proclamations.

All I will say is that comic fans are like horror movie fans concerning any portrayal of Gwen Stacy. "When does she die?"

(Sorry for the comparison. Watched Cabin In The Woods not too long ago. That movie was so good.)

Hearing Greg Weisman talk about how many comments he saw regarding Gwen dying in the Spectacular cartoon is really... illuminating...

This is another one of those things like the line Darth Vader says when he reveals Luke's parentage. The wrong thing has become common knowledge. That was what I was expecting from the Black Cat relationship as well, but it's stimply not there. While the two fo them express some attraction for each other in her first few appearences, it's not until "The Final Battle" that they actual become a couple, and once they break up they never really get back together, though the possibility is flirted with right before his proposal to Mary Jane.

I said "The Spectacular Cartoon." Not "The Spectacular Comic."