In praise & defense of George Perez: the man who transformed DC Comics

[Rakzo]

For the record, I loved and still love Perez' work from the 80's. COIE is one of the most imaginative and epic stories ever drawn and his Teen Titans had some of the best art of that decade.

However, with the new generation of great artists that have come lately, I truly believe that Perez' style have become dated. Not only that, I actually think that his art had become worse in the last decade or so, probably due to his age but also because he has'nt adapted to more modern ways to improve his style.

[Flashpoint]

For the record, I loved and still love Perez' work from the 80's. COIE is one of the most imaginative and epic stories ever drawn and his Teen Titans had some of the best art of that decade.

However, with the new generation of great artists that have come lately, I truly believe that Perez' style have become dated. Not only that, I actually think that his art had become worse in the last decade or so, probably due to his age but also because he has'nt adapted to more modern ways to improve his style.

That doesn't make any sense. What "modern ways" are you talking about?

I can totally appreciate saying your tastes have changed or you want to see something different. But good storytelling is still good storytelling. I mean, did you even read my first few posts? Should artists not try to make characters look more diverse and unique? How are artistic goals like that or trying to challenge stodgy old rules like forcing action sequences into stories where they don't belong somehow out of date?

Several people have noted that Perez's art is not as detailed and powerful as it was when he was younger. That's more than fair. But to say somehow there are "modern ways" of storytelling that exist now that didn't exist before makes zero sense. Perez was breaking many old-fashioned conventions of comic book storytelling that other artists today are stuck per perpetuating in "modern" times.

Modern artists who go back to the future using old-fashioned art and storytelling gimmicks are, in fact, the ones who are making their work dated.

[Reginleif]

Again, most of your post I have no problem with. Like it or not (and I don't), George is older and much slower. Gone are the heady days in the Eighties when he could churn out 25 pages of full pencils a week and somehow juggle both JLA and Teen Titans or JLA and Avengers at the same time. It's simply too much work for him given his age and his vision problems.

What I do find fault with is the maligning of his talent. Looking over the Worlds' Finest pages, I see a noticeable improvement in quality over the modern pages in Teen Titans: Games. I think when George has more lead time, he can slow down and produce the level of detail he strives for. No question his age is a factor. But I don't think his talent is lacking or gone simply because his eyes and hands have to move more slowly.

And while I respect Amanda Conner's fans, her more cartoonish style really isn't my first choice. I prefer more realism and lean more toward creators like Nicola Scott, Jimmy Cheung or Doug Mahnke. They tend to do much more detailed art. Like this...


The first time I saw that, I almost thought it was an old piece by Perez. Now *that* is my idea of "good" art.

Conner's art is something I'm slower to warm up to. I like her work better when she takes a more realistic tone and adds more detail.

Again, everyone has a right to like what they want and prefer whatever style of art suits them. But people don't lose their knowledge and skills because of age and throwing around words like "dated" seems like blatantly obvious code for ageist snark: "Get lost, old fart. We don't want you around anymore." The fact you or I don't like someone's work does not mean we automatically get to dismiss them and diss them. And it is the dissing of Perez that I have a problem with--not the fact some people don't like it.

realism = facism

[Overhazard]

I didn't realize so many people were giving Perez's artwork a hard time until I read the comments for the supergirl issue he did, they ripped him to shreds. Personally I liked it, yeah it has a retro feel to it, but people say that like its a bad thing.

[americanwonder]

Worth more than a thousand words:

[Rakzo]

That doesn't make any sense. What "modern ways" are you talking about?

By modern ways I mean that Perez has'nt learn how to adapt and improve his art with the new polishment techniques that are currently available.

However, that does'nt mean that other old school artists can't adapt to the times, let's see some of Keith Giffen's art from the eighties:



An interesting style with some classic dull colors from that era. Now, let's see some of his most recent output:



It looks more dynamic, vibrant and refined than ever, Giffen is one of the few artists (and writers) from that generation that keeps improving. Kevin Maguire is also a good example based on his recent work on My Greatest Adventure.

By the way, I have always appreciated the way that Perez draws multiple and different characters at the same time but his style is definitely antiquated, I would think the same about Curt Swan if he was still alive and drawing comics and I consider him one of the most iconic Superman artists of all time.

[Prisoner 6655321]

I'm not crazy about George's writing but I love his art, especially his ability to draw crowds with good detail. He does tend to draw hair styles a bit dated but his faces are great and his group shots of aliens and strangeness even more so.

[Flashpoint]

By modern ways I mean that Perez has'nt learn how to adapt and improve his art with the new polishment techniques that are currently available.

However, that does'nt mean that other old school artists can't adapt to the times, let's see some of Keith Giffen's art from the eighties:



An interesting style with some classic dull colors from that era. Now, let's see some of his most recent output:



It looks more dynamic, vibrant and refined than ever, Giffen is one of the few artists (and writers) from that generation that keeps improving. Kevin Maguire is also a good example based on his recent work on My Greatest Adventure.

By the way, I have always appreciated the way that Perez draws multiple and different characters at the same time but his style is definitely antiquated, I would think the same about Curt Swan if he was still alive and drawing comics and I consider him one of the most iconic Superman artists of all time.

Wow. We really aren't going to agree on this. Especially when your primary example is Keith Giffen. I was one of Giffen's biggest fans in the early 80s during his initial run on LSH. His pencils under Larry Mahlstedt's inks were jaw-droppingly beautiful. Then it just went all downhill from there--and even Giffen has publicly admitted he really screwed up. Once he started literally tracing Jose Munoz's Alack Sinner, his artwork took a major nosedive in quality. Plus, the notorious Comics Journal expose of Giffen's tracing Munoz cost Giffen a great deal of work and majorly hurt his reputation for quite a few years.

As much as Giffen has polished away the rough edges he developed during his tracing of Munoz's work in the Eighties, the fact is that Giffen's art has never been as slick, polished or modern as it was during his first LSH run. And Giffen has always been guilty of ape-ing Kirby's style, sometimes even copying poses and layouts from Kirby's past work.

I love Kevin Maguire's art, but again I think he, too, has slowed a bit with age and his output now isn't as slick and detailed as it was in the late Eighties and early Nineties. Now, again, I think Maguire's art is still top notch and very beautiful. But everyone ages and thus their output isn't as fast nor as detailed as when they were the hot young guns in the halcyon days of the comics industry's Bronze Age. I think Perez and Maguire are both holding up equally well as they get older.

As for comparing Perez to Swan, I am sorry but that's bunk. Swan was one of the biggest offenders when it comes to using the stale "boy face/girl face" gimmick. I loved him as a kid, but few artists' work looks more dated to me than Swan. Same with Don Heck and, yes, I'll say it--Jack Kirby. You can't get more dated than Kirby.

[Earmites]

Again, most of your post I have no problem with. Like it or not (and I don't), George is older and much slower. Gone are the heady days in the Eighties when he could churn out 25 pages of full pencils a week and somehow juggle both JLA and Teen Titans or JLA and Avengers at the same time. It's simply too much work for him given his age and his vision problems.

What I do find fault with is the maligning of his talent. Looking over the Worlds' Finest pages, I see a noticeable improvement in quality over the modern pages in Teen Titans: Games. I think when George has more lead time, he can slow down and produce the level of detail he strives for. No question his age is a factor. But I don't think his talent is lacking or gone simply because his eyes and hands have to move more slowly.

And while I respect Amanda Conner's fans, her more cartoonish style really isn't my first choice. I prefer more realism and lean more toward creators like Nicola Scott, Jimmy Cheung or Doug Mahnke. They tend to do much more detailed art. Like this...

The first time I saw that, I almost thought it was an old piece by Perez. Now *that* is my idea of "good" art.

Conner's art is something I'm slower to warm up to. I like her work better when she takes a more realistic tone and adds more detail.

Again, everyone has a right to like what they want and prefer whatever style of art suits them. But people don't lose their knowledge and skills because of age and throwing around words like "dated" seems like blatantly obvious code for ageist snark: "Get lost, old fart. We don't want you around anymore." The fact you or I don't like someone's work does not mean we automatically get to dismiss them and diss them. And it is the dissing of Perez that I have a problem with--not the fact some people don't like it.

I really hope that's not what you think I was doing. In fact your opening post and pretty much every post you have made about this topic since is probably some of the most well spoken and well thought out sentiments I have seen on these forums in a while.

I don't think anyone can argue what you have presented. It certainly makes me respect George Perez more than I already did.

I was in no fact attempting to say, "Beat it old man" but at the same time I am saying that I have been away from Dc for a looong time. I came back for the New 52 and so far...Superman was terrible. I loved Action but Superman was not well done. I don't think I am alone in that sentiment since DC pulled that creative team and replaced them.

I see the art of world's finest and it doesn't appeal to me. The guest penciling on Supergirl was...just not good. Yes by all means respect the man for what he has given us. Yes he may have changed the world of comics back in the day, but honestly...There are writers and artists now that used what he did as a springboard and launched to even greater heights...heights he can't reach anymore.

All I am saying is respect the fact that he helped build the rocket, but don't be surprised that the astronauts are getting all the glory.

[An Ear In The Fireplace]

I think that slick and rough art styles have always been concurrent. At one time George Perez was one of those artists who I thought of as a slick artist (and probably a lot of today's artists were influenced by him). One should note that his inkers deserve some credit, too--Romeo Tanghal was the main inker on most of those classic New Teen Titans pages.

I've noticed that George has been doing work that has some rough edges now, which I think is good. It seems like a lot of artists as they mature will go from slickness to roughness, because they see the appeal of leaving rough edges on their work. It's easy to score points with readers by doing a slick style and an overly detailed style--which seems to be the case with artists starting out. But as they mature, a lot of pros learn to subtract and filter out all the excess from their work and get down to the nitty gritty. Young artists have to impress the fanbase, so they do the stuff that's most obvious and appealing to fans--but hopefully as an artist matures he gains enough security (financially and critically) that he can afford to do work that pleases himself first of all.

[Flashpoint]

I really hope that's not what you think I was doing. In fact your opening post and pretty much every post you have made about this topic since is probably some of the most well spoken and well thought out sentiments I have seen on these forums in a while.

I don't think anyone can argue what you have presented. It certainly makes me respect George Perez more than I already did.

I was in no fact attempting to say, "Beat it old man" but at the same time I am saying that I have been away from Dc for a looong time. I came back for the New 52 and so far...Superman was terrible. I loved Action but Superman was not well done. I don't think I am alone in that sentiment since DC pulled that creative team and replaced them.

I see the art of world's finest and it doesn't appeal to me. The guest penciling on Supergirl was...just not good. Yes by all means respect the man for what he has given us. Yes he may have changed the world of comics back in the day, but honestly...There are writers and artists now that used what he did as a springboard and launched to even greater heights...heights he can't reach anymore.

All I am saying is respect the fact that he helped build the rocket, but don't be surprised that the astronauts are getting all the glory.

No, I was addressing other posters' comments with the ageist snark observation. So please don't feel I think that way about your posts. And thanks for the praise you gave my original post. Very kind of you.

RE: Superman
It may have been Bleeding Cool; I'm not sure. But I read somewhere that allegedly Didio and his team didn't have anyone on Superman up until 2 weeks before the big deadline for making the publication date. That rumor alleged that DC courted Mark Miller, but Miller turned them down and DC had no Plan B. Perez was, in fact, the hero here in that he managed to jump onboard and get the book out on time. Was it rushed? Hell yes. But blame DC editorial for that, not George.

RE: Supergirl and Worlds' Finest
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think both books have shown a marked improvement which is directly the result of George having much more lead time. Supergirl was above average for George and some parts were hit-or-miss, but Worlds' Finest looks to be some of his best work in years.

And again, let's just agree to disagree. I think he *can* reach those heights if given reasonable lead time. The fact that he turned out all those issues of Superman with almost no lead time is a testament to both his professionalism and his continued strengths and talents as a comic book artist. He is to be commended for making deadlines most creators would not have been able to do.

[Flashpoint]

I think that slick and rough art styles have always been concurrent. At one time George Perez was one of those artists who I thought of as a slick artist (and probably a lot of today's artists were influenced by him). One should note that his inkers deserve some credit, too--Romeo Tanghal was the main inker on most of those classic New Teen Titans pages.

I've noticed that George has been doing work that has some rough edges now, which I think is good. It seems like a lot of artists as they mature will go from slickness to roughness, because they see the appeal of leaving rough edges on their work. It's easy to score points with readers by doing a slick style and an overly detailed style--which seems to be the case with artists starting out. But as they mature, a lot of pros learn to subtract and filter out all the excess from their work and get down to the nitty gritty. Young artists have to impress the fanbase, so they do the stuff that's most obvious and appealing to fans--but hopefully as an artist matures he gains enough security (financially and critically) that he can afford to do work that pleases himself first of all.

Terrific post. Very well-written.

As for Romeo Tanghal...it's well-documented that Perez had some real problems with how Tanghal was inking Perez's pencils. Perez took time out of his insanely busy schedule to sit down with Tanghal and personally coach him on how to ink his work. Imagine that--the artist on the comics industry's #1 book takes time out of his schedule to sit with you and personally help you improve your work by giving advice and tips on artwork.

The eventual quality and success of much of Tanghal's tenure at DC was helped in no small part by George's desire to help Tanghal help make the Titans a better book.

[Rakzo]

As much as Giffen has polished away the rough edges he developed during his tracing of Munoz's work in the Eighties, the fact is that Giffen's art has never been as slick, polished or modern as it was during his first LSH run. And Giffen has always been guilty of ape-ing Kirby's style, sometimes even copying poses and layouts from Kirby's past work.

I dunno, I have seen his work on LOSH and it looked kinda lifeless, I prefer his more imaginative and polished current work (Which is also based on Kirby but hey it's still great).

I love Kevin Maguire's art, but again I think he, too, has slowed a bit with age and his output now isn't as slick and detailed as it was in the late Eighties and early Nineties. Now, again, I think Maguire's art is still top notch and very beautiful. But everyone ages and thus their output isn't as fast nor as detailed as when they were the hot young guns in the halcyon days of the comics industry's Bronze Age. I think Perez and Maguire are both holding up equally well as they get older.

Nah, Kevin Maguire was and is still great, except that now their able to put a bigger variety of colors on his art and he's making more dynamic scenes as seen on his Tanga stories.

As for comparing Perez to Swan, I am sorry but that's bunk. Swan was one of the biggest offenders when it comes to using the stale "boy face/girl face" gimmick. I loved him as a kid, but few artists' work looks more dated to me than Swan. Same with Don Heck and, yes, I'll say it--Jack Kirby. You can't get more dated than Kirby.

Yeah and Perez also seems dated to me.

[Flashpoint]

I dunno, I have seen his work on LOSH and it looked kinda lifeless, I prefer his more imaginative and polished current work (Which is also based on Kirby but hey it's still great).



Nah, Kevin Maguire was and is still great, except that now their able to put a bigger variety of colors on his art and he's making more dynamic scenes as seen on his Tanga stories.



Yeah and Perez also seems dated to me.

Fine and dandy. No prob. However...

if you think this:



is the same quality of detail and scope the same as this:



Sigh. I really don't know what to say. Different strokes for different folks.

[Jaylarue]

I was starting to wonder if I was the only George Perez fan around anymore. I have been a fan since the 80's and of course, GP will always be my favorite artist. I agree that some of his recent work is not quite what I am used to from him, but I still wonder why so many people think its so dated. Go look at your JLA vs Avengers issue (##2? 3?, I think). Look at the 2 page spread of the Avengers vs. Starro. Look at the dizzying perspective. Look at the detail. Look at the action happening in two panels. I defy ANY modern artist to be able to recapture that scene. I can stare at it four hours, and still see something new that I didnt see the last time I stared at it for four hours. That is the mark of genious.