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  1. #31
    I wanna hear you scream Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    Oh, I know you were. I was referring to additional in-story reasons why Betty never got as popular when compared to other love interests
    Betty clearly wasn't intended to be "the love interest" of the franchise. After all, Stan was still sussing everything out.

    The problem is a lot of the things he did with Gwen were things he had done before with Betty. (He just took things to the next level with Gwen since she was the love interest a lot longer.)

    The entire "loves Peter but hates Spider-Man" thing was done with Betty. Even the death of Gwen's father invokes the death of Betty's brother (right down to the use of Dr. Octopus being inadvertently responsible.)

    It's understand why Conway really wasn't attracted to Gwen as a character. And the decision to kill her wasn't Conway's alone. Jazzy John Romita and Rascally Roy Thomas were also heavily involved. And this decision is what gave Norman his claim to fame.
    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Betty clearly wasn't intended to be "the love interest" of the franchise. After all, Stan was still sussing everything out.

    The problem is a lot of the things he did with Gwen were things he had done before with Betty. (He just took things to the next level with Gwen since she was the love interest a lot longer.)

    The entire "loves Peter but hates Spider-Man" thing was done with Betty. Even the death of Gwen's father invokes the death of Betty's brother (right down to the use of Dr. Octopus being inadvertently responsible.)

    It's understand why Conway really wasn't attracted to Gwen as a character. And the decision to kill her wasn't Conway's alone. Jazzy John Romita and Rascally Roy Thomas were also heavily involved. And this decision is what gave Norman his claim to fame.
    Agreed. Heck, Gwen practically had the same personality as Betty when she and Peter were dating.
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  3. #33
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Norman is the kind of threat who swings wild when he's going nuts, but Ock is cool as a cucumber.

    I don't really buy into the 'calculating mastermind' characterization when it comes to Norman, because this is a guy whose most famous plan was to throw Spider-Man's girlfriend off a bridge in broad daylight and then...get his ass kicked, I guess?

    A real winner, that Norman.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Norman is the kind of threat who swings wild when he's going nuts, but Ock is cool as a cucumber.

    I don't really buy into the 'calculating mastermind' characterization when it comes to Norman, because this is a guy whose most famous plan was to throw Spider-Man's girlfriend off a bridge in broad daylight and then...get his ass kicked, I guess?

    A real winner, that Norman.
    It's one of the reasons why I never bought the idea that anyone would be stupid enough to hand someone like Norman Osborn the "keys to the kingdom" during Dark Reign. Yes, Norman is a schemer and manipulator, but the reason why his schemes and manipulations fall apart is because his own obsessions and insanity get in the way to the point where he has no control. Doc Ock, on the other hand, even though you know he's crazy enough to do anything and is also an egomanic, is more than capable of actually pulling his schemes and plans off, although not at the same level as Doctor Doom, of course.
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  5. #35
    I wanna hear you scream Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Norman is the kind of threat who swings wild when he's going nuts, but Ock is cool as a cucumber.

    I don't really buy into the 'calculating mastermind' characterization when it comes to Norman, because this is a guy whose most famous plan was to throw Spider-Man's girlfriend off a bridge in broad daylight and then...get his ass kicked, I guess?

    A real winner, that Norman.
    I always loved the Jenkins story he did with Norman. Where Norman releases a video to the media showing Gwen's death and claiming he was swooping down to save Gwen before Spidey foolishly caught Gwen with his webbing, killing her.

    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The real top 3 is about what I think we all expected.

    And the reason we all love Norman is because he murdered Gwen. (We love you, Norman!)
    Well, yes. That and the fact that he is a villain with a name like 'Norman.'
    Perfect humility dispenses with modesty.

  7. #37
    I wanna hear you scream Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Well, yes. That and the fact that he is a villain with a name like 'Norman.'
    That's one of the reasons we all love Norman Bates. (Well, that and Bates likes to watch women in the shower before he kills them. )
    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I always loved the Jenkins story he did with Norman. Where Norman releases a video to the media showing Gwen's death and claiming he was swooping down to save Gwen before Spidey foolishly caught Gwen with his webbing, killing her.

    How come Spidey hasn't gone to jail for killing Gwen? Doesn't Peter have any shame or guilt? He should turn himself in to the authorities.

  9. #39

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    Whatever you are smoking, I'll have two. And some munchies!
    Perfect humility dispenses with modesty.

  10. #40
    Superior Member chicainery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One More Day View Post
    How come Spidey hasn't gone to jail for killing Gwen? Doesn't Peter have any shame or guilt? He should turn himself in to the authorities.
    I've always heard he's a "menace"!

    You're absolutely right, though, that would have been a great story. Spider-man turns himself in for killing Gwen immediately after he went after Norman. Then we wouldn't have to argue about One More Day being the absolutely worst story in Spider-man comic book history, because the series would have just ended.

  11. #41
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
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    This issue actually looks at the night Gwen died from the POV of an officer on the scene. Additionally, Spidey was cleared of all charges regarding the deaths of Norman and Gwen. (I think it was Jean DeWolfe who pushed for that? I don't recall.)

  12. #42
    Cyclops was right OrpheusTelos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Last chance? Quit what?

    Norman brings a lot of drama to Spider-Man's world. The Spider-Man comics wouldn't have been as interesting if Norman wasn't around. I appreciate all the drama and excitement Norman has brought to Spidey's world. From being Harry's father to The Clone Saga to killing Gwen (but especially for killing Gwen. That brought SO much drama to these comics).

    And I'm not the only one who loves Norman's contributions to Spider-Man's world since fans just voted him the #1 Spidey villain.

    (We love you, Norman!)
    That and he knocked Gwen up. Nothing more villainous than sleeping with your girlfriend.
    "And in a few years, some rebellious little kid is going to turn up at your school with me on his t-shirt. 'Cyclops was right.'"

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    It's one of the reasons why I never bought the idea that anyone would be stupid enough to hand someone like Norman Osborn the "keys to the kingdom" during Dark Reign. Yes, Norman is a schemer and manipulator, but the reason why his schemes and manipulations fall apart is because his own obsessions and insanity get in the way to the point where he has no control. Doc Ock, on the other hand, even though you know he's crazy enough to do anything and is also an egomanic, is more than capable of actually pulling his schemes and plans off, although not at the same level as Doctor Doom, of course.
    I've always viewed Osborn's "modern" characterization as an ongoing thing, since he'd only really been a character way back in the day. Ellis and Bendis added things that, while never actually present before, made a whole lot of sense. Norman's a titan of industry; of course he's going to know how to pull strings and throw his economic/political weight around to bully others into giving him what he wants. To me, it's just add super villain.
    Marriage Era Spidey bashers are shameful opportunists (Like you REALLY didn't enjoy a single Spidey comic in 20 years)
    Conversely, BND haters REALLY need to get over their continuity elitism already

  14. #44
    Lovin that Psylocke Spiderman 1's Avatar
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    Let me know what would you need to hate someone more, and consider him your life time nemesis than having a guy knocking up the then love of your life, killing her in front of you, convince you that your "mother died", giving you a brother and then also killing him in front of you?

    The only thing missing here is "Skip" from that weird story where Petey was about to be molested pulling up his face and revealing him to be Norman.

  15. #45

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    Norman No. 1: Excellent choice
    Ock as No. 2: Well said
    Venom as No. 3: What's this stage queen doing here? He's not even a complete villain
    "Save the innocent"
    "Hurt the spider"
    "Kill the spider"
    "Save innocent parents from the spider"
    "Truce with spider"
    "Go against spider again"
    "We know who you are Spidey, we can hurt you"
    "Help Aunt May with her laundry"
    "I'm in conflict here? Who's good? Who's bad?"
    The 90s cartoon guy was more of a villain, at least on their first meeting

    Negative is more worthy of being No.3 than this one, cause without knowing who Spider-Man is he changed the attitude of his foster mother and on their first encounter forced him to give him key to kill him
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