WWE RAW III: Here Comes the Pain

[Alex]

The WON pointed out that with RAW's taping time starting over an hour earlier than before (in a few months it begins) it seems that WWE is preparing to start filming a new show at that time. The cruiserweight show perhaps?

Probably NXT.

[Legato]

Probably NXT.

Hope so. I want some more Regal on my TV

[Gryphon]

Probably NXT.

Dont they do that before smackdown? Or are you saying adding a second hour of NXT?

I still hope its the cruiserweight show.

[Alex]

Dont they do that before smackdown? Or are you saying adding a second hour of NXT?

I still hope its the cruiserweight show.

Im saying it would be really easy to move the tapings before Raw, and since Smackdown sells less tickets they might want to put NXT on before a show with a bigger audience.

[Genki Sudo]

I gotta find that legends show where bill watts puts himself over as the guy who ended racism in the wrestling business.

Here you go

http://youtu.be/GziVXp_Guro

[darthjoker]

2 hours of NXT? I wouldn't mind. NXT is good. has good stories,
BTW, NXT is just a 1 hour show right?

[steve2275]

Hope so. I want some more Regal on my TV

amen

2 hours of NXT? I wouldn't mind. NXT is good. has good stories,
BTW, NXT is just a 1 hour show right?
yes

[lboinyamouf4sho]

I don't even know what you are trying to say anymore.
Are you saying his time in japan shouldn't be brought up at all then? Because johnny is the one who brought it up trying to put himself over, punk came out after.

i'm saying 1)i wouldn't care if they never mentioned johnny wrestling in japan(i'm sure johnny didn't just bring it up randomly during the promo). 2)if they are going to talk about it punk shouldn't act as if his accomplishments don't count because they happened in japan.

Or are you trying to say he was succesful because he was once in a tag team in WCW?
That puts him at the same level as about 500 other guys over the years who were in tag teams that never took off.

yes. after 4yrs in the business wrestling in a tag team in WCW is success or at the ver least NOT a failure, again look where punk was in his 4th year as a wrestler.

I don't understand what Punk not doing well in japan has to do with anything, Punk is a star now, johnny is having his most success in america right now as well, as a heel gm, not as a wrestler. He didn't lie, he responded to what Ace already brought up.

i'm trying to point out that if things aren't working out for a wrestler in the US they can't just go to japan and become a star, cm punk failing in japan is just an xample of that.

The entire angle is structured to make johnny look like a failure, that's the story. The pictures you brought up? One of them was him holding the belt looking as goony as humanly possible, and again, the villian was the one who showed the picture.

really?? because cena(the guy who is wrestling ace) hasn't mentioned it.

And no, i don't think it's stupid to say that in a real world context, he was in the fucking dynamic dudes tag team in pre bischoff post Hulkamania WWF taking off WCW. Punk never said he sucked in japan, he said he sucked here.

that says a lot about you. it's dumb to say somebody went to japan and became a star there because they couldn't cut it here, especially when the person saying it couldn't "cut it" in japan.

answer this, did punk go to japan because he couldn't cut it here, or hell what about hero, generico, davey richards, the briscoes?? all of these guys have gone to japan and not achieved the level of success ace did.

If the levels of what constitutes a success in wrestling is now "Was once in a tag team for a major promotion" then we need to start putting over erik watts. Who got a singles push in WCW also.

again you're leaving out a HUGE part of the story. try this "Was once in a tag team for a major promotion, then left for japan and became a big star until eventually retiring from the ring" yes, that would be a successful career as a wrestler. certainly doesn't sound like a loser.

would you say nigel mcguiness was a loser/failure in wrestling??

[Alex]

i'm saying 1)i wouldn't care if they never mentioned johnny wrestling in japan(i'm sure johnny didn't just bring it up randomly during the promo). 2)if they are going to talk about it punk shouldn't act as if his accomplishments don't count because they happened in japan.




yes. after 4yrs in the business wrestling in a tag team in WCW is success or at the ver least NOT a failure, again look where punk was in his 4th year as a wrestler.



i'm trying to point out that if things aren't working out for a wrestler in the US they can't just go to japan and become a star, cm punk failing in japan is just an xample of that.



really?? because cena(the guy who is wrestling ace) hasn't mentioned it.



that says a lot about you. it's dumb to say somebody went to japan and became a star there because they couldn't cut it here, especially when the person saying it couldn't "cut it" in japan.

answer this, did punk go to japan because he couldn't cut it here, or hell what about hero, generico, davey richards, the briscoes?? all of these guys have gone to japan and not achieved the level of success ace did.



again you're leaving out a HUGE part of the story. try this "Was once in a tag team for a major promotion, then left for japan and became a big star until eventually retiring from the ring" yes, that would be a successful career as a wrestler. certainly doesn't sound like a loser.

would you say nigel mcguiness was a loser/failure in wrestling??

So, i think i see where this is going to go lbo.
Do you think Johnny Ace would have been a success in american professional wrestling?

I personaly do not. He didn't have the big body builder body, he had no charisma, and he didn't get over in his four years here.
You know what else he had? A brother who was a big star.
You said he at least wasn't a failure...ok, sure, fine. He fucking left the country and never worked here again though, guys usualy don't do that when things are going awesome for them.


You keep bringing up his success in japan, it doesn't matter in the context of this because punk said he had to go to japan to succed, he isn't saying he didn't do well in japan, he's saying he didn't do well in america.
And again, he was at the same level as hundreds and hundreds of other wrestlers over the years, who "made it" in that they were in a major promotion. He was not a star to this audience, punk is a star to this audience, punk is speaking to this audience.
He brought japan up because johnny brought up his time in japan before Punk came out.

You keep focusing on since he went to japan and did well it means something, and im not argueing that, but it means shit to this story, because no one watching cares how well he did because it doesn't mean anything to them. It's like if they brought Robbie E into WWE and said "He was the tv champ in TNA!!!" No one woudl==ld give a shit, and that's an american promotion they might have watched at one time or another. Him doing well in japan doesn't mean he was some big star in american.

Now, to answer your question about the indie guys who have gone to japan and not had as much success, there are a few things at play here. The first is that you know it's not the same situation because wrestling is nowhere near as popular in japan now as it was then, the other is that those guys were all and still are indie workers, they aren't guys who worked for WCW, didn't get any traction, and then left and had to do well in japan. I would imagine they either went over their to learn, or because they got booked, and never intended to move to japan. Nor did they stop getting work when they came back.
Again though, they are indie guys, so it isn't the same situation anyway.

And im not arguing that he was popular in japan, im saying it doesn't matter to storyline, they had the heel bring it up, the audience doesn't care and isn't impressed, and he wasn't a star here.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

So, i think i see where this is going to go lbo.
Do you think Johnny Ace would have been a success in american professional wrestling?

don't know or care, not relevant to the discussion.

I personaly do not. He didn't have the big body builder body, he had no charisma, and he didn't get over in his four years here.
You know what else he had? A brother who was a big star.

his brother didn't wrestle the matches for him or get him over, it's not like he was road warrior ace or some shit.

You said he at least wasn't a failure...ok, sure, fine. He fucking left the country and never worked here again though, guys usualy don't do that when things are going awesome for them.

guys don't usually find the level of success that he did either, when they do they also usually stay for long periods. things might not have been goin awesome but they were going pretty damn good for a guy in his 4th year.

You keep bringing up his success in japan, it doesn't matter in the context of this because punk said he had to go to japan to succed, he isn't saying he didn't do well in japan, he's saying he didn't do well in america.

i'm speaking in the context of what's actually true, was never talking about the WWEU or storylines or getting this or that over.

And again, he was at the same level as hundreds and hundreds of other wrestlers over the years, who "made it" in that they were in a major promotion. He was not a star to this audience, punk is a star to this audience, punk is speaking to this audience.
He brought japan up because johnny brought up his time in japan before Punk came out.

1000's and 1000's never wrestle on a PPV for a major promotion though.

never said anything about him being a star to that audience.

You keep focusing on since he went to japan and did well it means something, and im not argueing that, but it means shit to this story, because no one watching cares how well he did because it doesn't mean anything to them. It's like if they brought Robbie E into WWE and said "He was the tv champ in TNA!!!" No one woudl==ld give a shit, and that's an american promotion they might have watched at one time or another. Him doing well in japan doesn't mean he was some big star in american.

again this is NOT what i'm even talking about. never said he was a big star in america.

Now, to answer your question about the indie guys who have gone to japan and not had as much success, there are a few things at play here. The first is that you know it's not the same situation because wrestling is nowhere near as popular in japan now as it was then, the other is that those guys were all and still are indie workers, they aren't guys who worked for WCW, didn't get any traction, and then left and had to do well in japan.

xactly, they haven't even reached the level ace reached in the states at which point you said he was a failure. the best part is where you say he had to do well in japan, WTF he didn't have to, he easily could've not got over and failed to make any kind of impact.

I would imagine they either went over their to learn, or because they got booked, and never intended to move to japan. Nor did they stop getting work when they came back.
Again though, they are indie guys, so it isn't the same situation anyway.

do you not see the double standard here?? ace is doing OK as a wrestler in the states(actually better than the indy guys i mentioned), he goes to japan(after wrestling for 4 years) and you say it's because he was a failure in the US and he HAD to go. but when the other guys go it's to learn(even though most of them ad been wrestling longer than 4 years when they went).

do you think if those guys had found the level of success that ace did and were making more money in japan they'd come back to wrestle in RoH or PWG?? because that's what you're holding against ace, the fact that he succeeded over there and made his career there.

And im not arguing that he was popular in japan, im saying it doesn't matter to storyline, they had the heel bring it up, the audience doesn't care and isn't impressed, and he wasn't a star here.

Ok and i'm not arguing about storylines, not sure where you got that twisted, but what we were arguing was whether or not ace had a successful career. he did have a successful career as a pro wrestler, i don't see why it's so hard to give him his due for that.

[Gryphon]

Probably NXT.

Im saying it would be really easy to move the tapings before Raw, and since Smackdown sells less tickets they might want to put NXT on before a show with a bigger audience.

With the news that NXT tapings will be on thursdays at the new arena, I now am back to suspecting the cruiserweight show.

[darthjoker]

so... with NXT now not being tapped before SD... that means that NXT stars are officially NXT stars, as in we will never see again Yoshi Tatsu or JTG again on raw or SD?

[XPac]

so... with NXT now not being tapped before SD... that means that NXT stars are officially NXT stars, as in we will never see again Yoshi Tatsu or JTG again on raw or SD?

Since RAWs are super shows I suppose that doesn't matter in theory.

[master of read]

raw opens with trips and ace.

[Vibranium]

nice suit, Trips....pinstripes are a good look