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  1. #31
    Senior Member chastmastr's Avatar
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    Erik--is there the tiniest, tiniest chance that all the wonderful, fun, cool characters and such who were literally killed and torn apart in this issue can somehow come back, ever?

  2. #32

  3. #33
    Resident Fanboy Erik Larsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chastmastr View Post
    Erik--is there the tiniest, tiniest chance that all the wonderful, fun, cool characters and such who were literally killed and torn apart in this issue can somehow come back, ever?
    Which ones are those? Most of the villains remain in captivity in the mirror prison, the most-visually compelling Supremes all survived and all of the major supporting characters live on. Who is dead that was so essential? Which characters that make Supreme unique? Darius Dax is a thinly-veiled Lex Luthor and most of the characters that died were variations on him. Of the Supremes who died--most were one-note characters that really had no life beyond a panel or two in which they first appeared. Of the others, Radar is a thinly-veiled Krypto. Billy Friday is essentially Jimmy Olsen and Judy Jordan is Lana Lang. I think Alan told some delightful stories with these characters but honestly--they're all just a bit derivative, don't you think? I just thought it would be best to distance the book a bit from Superman. There is a Superman. You can buy collections of Silver Age Superman comics. You really don't need me to do homages to those stories. You can read the originals.

    Not that that's all Alan did, of course, he made it much more than that but I really don't think doing an imitation of an homage is the best route to take.

    My goal here is to try and take all of the things which made the book unique and emphasize those qualities rather than play up the things that make it appear derivative. Getting there required a modern "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" of sorts but I think you'll find what this becomes to be unlike anything on the racks and that is the goal--to have Supreme be a unique book, which stand on its own. All of the characters Alan contributed aren't going away but there'll be a shift of sorts and the emphasis will change. You'll actually be seeing a lot MORE of some of his characters than you have seen as the surviving former-Supremes unite to fight a common enemy--the newly revived mean Supreme.

    Plus--if you read Alan's run you know there are other characters scattered around the universe. They're there when they're needed.

    Give it a chance. I think you'll find plenty to like about the new direction.
    Last edited by Erik Larsen; 05-09-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member chastmastr's Avatar
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    Honestly--well, let me start by saying that I have liked a lot of your stuff and I am sure I will like more of it in times to come, so this isn't one of those flouncing-off things. But in this case, honestly, I think the whole basic concept of a place where all of the different versions of Supreme, his friends and cast go when their reality is revised, there to live happily ever after--that being destroyed really saddens me. It seems to lose the concept entirely of there being a place like that. The idea that all of those characters are now mostly gruesomely dead seems counter to what made the thing cool in the first place--even if they were characters who only appeared for a panel or such. It's the concept. (On the flip side, arguably, it hasn't really been destroyed, since it could always turn out that "grim metafictional cross-continuity, worlds-will-live-and-die, universe-will-never-be-the-same Supreme" will take his place alongside Grim 80's Supreme, Silly Sixties Supreme, the various Imaginary-Story-Supremes, and all the others one day--and moreso, as Grant Morrison points out in Animal Man, those stories live again every time they're read anyway. I even have a bunch of continuity-related thoughts in my sig if you want to check it out...)

    My first reaction to some of your post was also, well--"What do 'visually-compelling,' 'essential,' 'unique,' or 'derivative' have to do with anything? How is that even relevant?" But we may be looking for different things. Again, part of the whole appeal of it--at least for me--was the idea that it was "derivative"--even to the point of all of the characters being variations on each other (many Supremes, many Judys, etc.) but that this wasn't at all a bad thing. What bothers me is not the idea that we won't (for instance) get any more adventures in Amalynth, or see Radar do anything--it's the notion of it all being smashed and destroyed. If there had been something involving (say) the characters you will now be spotlighting being--for some reason--unable to get back to the Supremacy (at least until the next reality revision), and stuck with the 90s mean Supreme, but with the Supremacy just going along happily in its inaccessibility, never to be seen again, that would have been peachy.

    Heck, I'm even reminded of that scene Alan wrote with Ethan Crane dealing with the new writer on Omniman having an all-new all-grim direction for the series.

    This is probably a bad time for me for this to all be coming out, what with what DC did to their universe in the new 52. I was hoping for some kind of respite from all that. I'm loving Grant Morrison's Superman stuff, and a few other things by Robinson and Levitz and such, but overall I think DC has done a lot of damage rather than improved things.

    But, again, regardless of all this, while I think this was not the best move for the Supremeverse, I have liked, and I am sure I will like, your stuff. This isn't an "Oh no! You cad! I will never buy your work again!" screed.

    (And maybe, someday, you'll decide to bring all of this stuff back after all... fingers crossed... ;) )

  5. #35
    voice of reason wiski's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with the killing off of characters that didn't really take part in the comic anyway, and it does well to clean the slate. I didn't really enjoy it as a single issue because all it was was a big fight scene, but I'm interested in seeing what comes from it, especially since I'm guessing the upcoming issues won't be completely devoted to a fight scene and will have more story and development.

    I did get a chuckle out of the old Supreme being so idiotically overpowered that he was the only one immune to something all the other Supremes were vulnerable to, which fits in well with my idea of how Liefeld would write a character. (badly)
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  6. #36
    Tactile Telekinesis stephens2177's Avatar
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    hey erik i for one cant appreciate you emphasizing the unique parts of a character or a characters universe.

    if you see my avatar,this character NOW is finally a mix of everything that makes him unique to,wish we had more writers that tbought this wah,maybe we wouldnt have to have a CRISIS every decade.
    Dont mess with the "S"

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    Bring back kon-el/Conner kent

  7. #37
    Storyteller Pil's Avatar
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    I thought #64 was way better than #63. I never cared much for Moore's retro style on Supreme. He had some good ideas, but the execution didn't work for me. It felt like a bland version of Superman. Now this, this is a step towards Supreme being original and entertaining like he was in the beginning. Personally I'd like to see more of the original cast as the series progress, but so far I'm just happy to see the original egomaniac again.
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  8. #38
    Tactile Telekinesis stephens2177's Avatar
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    i meant to say CAN,not CANT,in my last post.

    if your gonna do a homage to a character,it should run parallel with what makes the character unique,and always end in how they are diferent from each other.
    Dont mess with the "S"

    Mutation is a bitch

    Bring back kon-el/Conner kent

  9. #39
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    I had to make an account in the hopes Erik may see this:
    Thank you so much for your work on the Ninja Turtles. I thought that it was utterly fantastic and I hated seeing it not have a proper ending.
    Thank you thank you thank you!

  10. #40
    Resident Fanboy Erik Larsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italianslovegorillaz View Post
    I had to make an account in the hopes Erik may see this:
    Thank you so much for your work on the Ninja Turtles. I thought that it was utterly fantastic and I hated seeing it not have a proper ending.
    Thank you thank you thank you!
    Thanks for that. There's a possibility that may one day be rectified. Here's hoping that is the case. I know Gary and Frank do have an ending in mind which would give the series they worked on some closure.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Larsen View Post
    Thanks for that. There's a possibility that may one day be rectified. Here's hoping that is the case. I know Gary and Frank do have an ending in mind which would give the series they worked on some closure.
    Wow, that is a seriously exciting thought. I must say that I am a bit star-struck with the response. I think it is really cool when artists and writers take time to talk with the people reading their work. With that in mind, I have a quick question if you get the time: How badass does it feel to have been a part of the beginning of Image Comics and now, 20 years later, you are lead writing and drawing Supreme during what seems to be a renaissance year for the old school Image titles?

  12. #42

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    http://multiversitycomics.com/review...ew-supreme-64/

    Really well put.

    I was too angry to put my feelings into words.

    Thanks for taking care of it.

    "Moore gave Larsen a strong foundation on which to build the seriesí new direction, and in a single issue, Larsen threw it all out the window. It is incredible, really; never before have I seen one writer get rid of every dangling plot thread the previous writer had left so quickly ó though I certainly canít say it was done deftly."

    "Eric Larsen has managed to kill every bit of momentum within the span of a single issue. It is not even a matter of the comic being noticeably bad; rather, it is so noticeable not good."


    I have already begun imagining this story as a psychotic dream of the Liefeld Supreme.

    On an extra page of Supreme #64...

    Back in the Supremacy.Silver Age Supreme and Supremouse are looking in on Liefeld Supreme still locked in his cell.

    Silver Age Supreme "He keeps mumbling something about Purple Supremium."
    Supremouse "Purple Supremium. But there's no such thing. Squeak!"
    Silver Age Supreme " I know. It sounds ridiculous. I'm afraid he'll never fit in here."
    Supremouse "Squeak."

    CU of the Liefeld Supreme (whispering) "I am the only one."

  13. #43
    Senior Member The Adventurer's Avatar
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    Please point out every dangling plot thread Erik 'threw out the window'. Because I am legit curious as to what you are taking about.

  14. #44
    Senior Member chastmastr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregesis View Post
    I have already begun imagining this story as a psychotic dream of the Liefeld Supreme.
    Well, it might turn out to be just that, or something like that. I would not write off Erik's run so quickly, since we've only seen one issue. I mean, as I was starting to ponder above, the metafictional concept of the Supremacy might itself be stronger than any one incarnation of Supreme, and right itself later on as part of the story, right? This could even turn out to be like the whole Azrael/Batman storyline in the 1990s which was intended to show precisely why Batman can't and shouldn't be like the ultra-violent Azrael Batman, and all was restored in the end.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Italianslovegorillaz View Post
    I had to make an account in the hopes Erik may see this:
    Thank you so much for your work on the Ninja Turtles. I thought that it was utterly fantastic and I hated seeing it not have a proper ending.
    Thank you thank you thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Larsen View Post
    Thanks for that. There's a possibility that may one day be rectified. Here's hoping that is the case. I know Gary and Frank do have an ending in mind which would give the series they worked on some closure.
    Interesting note, in case you guys end up reading this:

    A TMNT community member named Andrew Modeen got together a number of guys from the Image and Mirage series', including Gary and Frank and AC Farley, one of the fan-favorite Mirage artists, and has self-published the conclusion to the Image TMNT, issues 24 & 25.

    http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=35326

    There's The Technodrome forum thread link where you can download the digital copy of 24, I'm sure in that thread there's a link to 25 as well. I doubt you can still get the printed copies, he didn't print many and I'm sure they got swiped up quickly, but it might be worth emailing him.

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