Action Comics #9 Preview/Eventual Discussion

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Elseworlds story where Superman was raised on Apokolips...as Darkseid's 'son'...

Did he become as evil as his adopted dad?

[adkal]

Did he become as evil as his adopted dad?

Initially he came to conquer Earth...then he embraced it and rejected Darkseid.

[adkal]

...This about pointing out character flaws that do not by themselves warrant wholesale condemnation. Superman can be wrong and still be a fundamentally good person. He can make an unethical choice without totally undermining his essential goodness. I just think it's important to shine a light on character flaws rather than pretend they don't exist. A flawed Superman isn't an invalid or uninteresting Superman. He's just not the ideal Superman. And I believe it should be okay to express that point of view.

Not too sure about the (over)-reliance on Brainiac in the long term - if he was upfront about his idenity (ala Action Comics Annual 3 (I know that was a forced reveal, but still)) then he wouldn't have to be (of course, that creates whole new nest of political problems).

To my mind, the result is (at the moment) that a number of decisions have been made by Brainiac but the Government and the world believe those decisions to be President Ellis'. It doesn't matter that those are decisions he may have made (and my position would change slightly if, for example, he actually did make those decisions but hadn't gotten around to implementing them), the fact is (the moment) that he didn't make them...

There's certainly good intent on his part, not denying that, but...the execution...

hmm...

(Besides, what happens if, for example, there's an attack at some international meeting and one of the robots is present (and gets damaged) instead of Ellis? 'Oh, we knew there would be an attack and put the robot there as a decoy'...yet didn't tell the other attending rulers, representatives etc...

Yeah...that would go down well...)

[thecrimson]

Again, YES

You assume everything between our universe and this parallel universe (of an already fictitious world with numerous fictitious cities) is directly 1:1. That's a flawed assumption to make, and all applications of said train of thought are therefore unreasonable. This is the last time I'm going to repeat that as a response to the same point you keep trying and failing to make.

Usually people who are steadfast in their borderline-trolling obtuseness have at least some way of peeling the onion to go deeper into their lunacy. You just repeat the same thing over and over without addressing literally anything people throw at you unless you can reply with pedantry and "oh really?".

Everyone in this forum would do right to just put you on ignore and let your close-minded obtuseness burn itself out without attention being paid. In fact, that's what I wholly recommend for anyone who doesn't enjoy arguing with a brick wall that somehow gained some form of sentience.

You could learn to better respond to a dissenting opinion. Maybe you should reflect on that. Just some constructive criticism.

well to be honest, morrison could make a huge joke here about how most folks think black people look alike
he could get lost int he crowd >_>

in all seriousness though let's wait and see before we start freaking about the president lying to us about his secret identity

plus come on if you can't make an exception in this instance then that speaks volumes about your relationship with him miss Lane :P
Hey I liked demolition man too! nice to see another fan
AND SOMEONE who read that annual with pres supes

Someone needs to tell me what Demolition Man is lol.

Space_Butler is right. There have been various alternate Earths throughout the years where the history varies greatly from the main Earth, much less our Earth. And there is no reason that this version of Superman cannot run for public office without letting people know of his dual identity to protect his own loved ones. We cannot just safely assume that the Constitution in this universe is the same as ours or not. We can hypothesize that it is, but until it becomes an actual issue, who gives a good goddamn? Which then takes me to misslane38 who says that only bad Presidents lie, I hate to say this, but that's probably far from the truth. After all, FDR was considered a good President, but he lied about his health. Kennedy was considered to be a good President, but he was screwing women left and right. Who is to say that Washington, Lincoln or any other so-called good President didn't lie to the American public in their tenure?

It almost seems blasphemous to imply that our founding fathers may have lied, but that is neither here nor there.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Initially he came to conquer Earth...then he embraced it and rejected Darkseid.

Cool.

Sounds like an exciting story.

[adkal]

Someone needs to tell me what Demolition Man is lol.

It's a movie...staring....


Sylvester Stallone

and

Wesley Snipes

It starts off in the 90s and then continues in 2032. In it, reference is made to the 'President Schwarzenegger Library'...

[thecrimson]

It's a movie...staring....


Sylvester Stallone

and

Wesley Snipes

It starts off in the 90s and then continues in 2032. In it, reference is made to the 'President Schwarzenegger Library'...

I got to see this.

[Kiryu]

Someone needs to tell me what Demolition Man is lol.

An action movie starring Wesley Snipes, Sylvester Stallone, and Sandra Bullock, set in the future, where they freeze criminals instead of jailing them.

[Mat001]

The problem is, morality is really subjective and relative. So while this Superman isn't "evil" he doesn't have to share the 100% the same moral guidelines as the DCU Superman. Your idea that he has to be exactly the same as the DCU Superman because he was raised by a "kindly couple" is a bad generalization and assumption.

Exactly. Some of the past Elseworlds versions of Kal-El was pretty similar to the main one, but others had differences based on the circumstances of their lives. In "Speeding Bullets", Kal is raised by the Waynes rather than the Kents. And after their deaths, he kills for the first time. Accidentally, but he still did it. His life then lead him into being more like Bruce was in his life. In "Red Son", he was a good man, but his methods weren't like his counterpart who was raised in the US. We all know what Superboy-Prime did. In season two of "Superboy", Clark traveled to a parallel Earth where he had killed Lex in retaliation for Lana's death. And to another world where he was raised by rich people in New York which resulted in his becoming a tyrant.

The idea of Superman being different across the Multiverse isn't something that's new.

It almost seems blasphemous to imply that our founding fathers may have lied, but that is neither here nor there.

Of course it does. We only have what history tells us was so, since we are not witness to it ourselves.

[Jody Garland]

Did he become as evil as his adopted dad?

He was at first, but the New Gods were able to essentially fix him. It's a great story that folks should check out, too!

[thecrimson]

Of course it does. We only have what history tells us was so, since we are not witness to it ourselves.

Let's invent a time machine, then.

[Mat001]

Nah, let's watch the trailer for "Demolition Man" instead.

[thecrimson]

Nah, let's watch the trailer for "Demolition Man" instead.

Sure, what the heck.

[GokaiRed]

Oh, you don't know how the three sea shells work? Pfffff!

[Space_Butler]

You could learn to better respond to a dissenting opinion. Maybe you should reflect on that. Just some constructive criticism.

That was a response to a response of a response to a poster I have a history with. I assure you, I am much more open-minded and courteous to posters who have not proven time and time again to be a blight on this forum.