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  1. #76
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
    Yeah, um, the "bottom line" for me was that Superman should never consider running for or taking public office if he intends on subverting Constitutional principles. If Superman does want to take that unethical step in any universe, then he is not the "ideal" and thus his integrity should be questioned.
    This is an element that is brought up in the issue, it may not be resolved to your satisfaction but I enjoyed his reasoning and the counter issue raised by Nubia.

  2. #77
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    Another well-written issue by Grant. I enjoyed Lois' speech about how, in her world, the "Superman Idea" had become a worldwide marketing machine, and people wore it everywhere. Not coincidentally, she's drawn as if she's looking right at the reader. Nice subtext there, a little nod to the real world.

    Having said that, I don't care for President Superman because I don't think Superman, no matter the universe, would ever want that much power and control (the Armageddon 2001 annual notwithstanding). I took issue with the backup story, but Nubia called him on it so it was a wash for me (and Grant didn't write it anyway).

    I loved Luthor though...first words: "I'm not a racist!" lol Another nod to our real world, where often people are mislabeled as a racist just because they might disagree with a decision by Obama. And people who are racist often begin a complaint with "I'n not racist or anything, but..." Good stuff.

  3. #78
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    I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but I Fisch has just been killing it. I've enjoyed Morrison's past works, but seriously, for this title, I can't wait to get through Morrison's noodling, shallow characterizations and heavy-handed attempts at subtext to read the back up where the characters actually have some emotional resonance.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8 View Post
    Having said that, I don't care for President Superman because I don't think Superman, no matter the universe, would ever want that much power and control (the Armageddon 2001 annual notwithstanding).
    The whole point of the US government is that the President's power is limited.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8 View Post
    Another well-written issue by Grant. I enjoyed Lois' speech about how, in her world, the "Superman Idea" had become a worldwide marketing machine, and people wore it everywhere. Not coincidentally, she's drawn as if she's looking right at the reader. Nice subtext there, a little nod to the real world.

    Having said that, I don't care for President Superman because I don't think Superman, no matter the universe, would ever want that much power and control (the Armageddon 2001 annual notwithstanding). I took issue with the backup story, but Nubia called him on it so it was a wash for me (and Grant didn't write it anyway).

    I loved Luthor though...first words: "I'm not a racist!" lol Another nod to our real world, where often people are mislabeled as a racist just because they might disagree with a decision by Obama. And people who are racist often begin a complaint with "I'n not racist or anything, but..." Good stuff.
    There's been plenty of alternate universe Supermen who have done worse than this Superman. It's not like he was an iron-fisted fascist or a supervillain or a whiny mass murdering psycho.

  6. #81
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    Morrison must not be able to walk straight because this issue took GINORMOUS balls.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    The whole point of the US government is that the President's power is limited.
    I realize that, but it's still a position of authority that I don't think a Superman would want. That's what I mean when I say "power". I'm not trying to turn this into a debate like the one misslane was caught up in; I'm just saying that Superman probably wouldn't want to be in a position of authority that influences things on such a scale. Especially when he's too busy to be there a lot of the time and relies on Brainiac to take care of things for him. Just my opinion.

    And yes, this is an alternate, and those are fun. I just think the same principles would apply to every Superman on every world. It's the same reason why people had issues with Byrne's origin as a football star. Again, just an opinion. At least he was called out on it in the backup.
    Last edited by ForeverYoung8; 05-02-2012 at 08:27 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    There's been plenty of alternate universe Supermen who have done worse than this Superman. It's not like he was an iron-fisted fascist or a supervillain or a whiny mass murdering psycho.
    I'm not saying he's doing anything wrong. Just that I don't think Superman, any Superman, would want to get involved that heavily in American politics.

    I'm surprised so many are okay with it. Considering all of that "citizen of the world, not just America" stuff, I'm surprised people aren't upset that he was set up as an American President.

  9. #84
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    loved this issue.

  10. #85
    Elder Member The Batman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8 View Post
    I'm not saying he's doing anything wrong. Just that I don't think Superman, any Superman, would want to get involved that heavily in American politics.
    Without wanting to repeat the hyperbole and the weird self-congratulations that followed Obama's election victory, if racial politics and social justice have followed an arc similar to our own in that alternate United States, then there's tremendous reasons that a person of colour who hopes to inspire and to beat back hatred, prejudice, and ignorance might seek the highest office in the land.

    Wow, that's one run-on sentence.

  11. #86
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    It boggles my mind that so many people look at this parallel Superman and think "Superman wouldnt x or do y" when the multiverse was set up specifically for those purposes. I mean, the Crime Syndicate universe Superman is still Superman, but I don't see people complaining that Superman would never be evil or do harm to others.

    It seems like if right from the get-go writers establish an alternate Superman as flat-out evil, that Supes is given a free pass by critical fans. They just accept it. But tell those same fans an alternate Superman is a hero, that one gets scrutinized from every direction.
    Last edited by Space_Butler; 05-02-2012 at 08:51 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    Without wanting to repeat the hyperbole and the weird self-congratulations that followed Obama's election victory, if racial politics and social justice have followed an arc similar to our own in that alternate United States, then there's tremendous reasons that a person of colour who hopes to inspire and to beat back hatred, prejudice, and ignorance might seek the highest office in the land.

    Wow, that's one run-on sentence.
    Now see, this is a very good point that I hadn't considered. I'm mulling it over presently and I appreciate your insight. That's good discussion. Thank you.

    @Space_Butler: Read mord of The Batman's posts for ways to properly discuss a dissenting opinion. Perhaps then it wouldn't "boggle your mind."

  13. #88
    patience gone in 3, 2... GokaiRed's Avatar
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    ... Sometimes I feel like I would be better off just reading the stories and not listening to some Superman fans. When your expectations are this high, it must be maddening to ever read a modern story with any Superman, because he's constantly getting the most insanely rigid comparisons to whatever your ideal happens to be. And anything else is wrong, therefore unacceptable as a part of the story.

    It is precisely because these Supermen in this run are not like certain other versions that I actually care about this story in the first place. I don't want to read about a morally perfect person at the peak of humanistic perfection in every respect. I don't want to go into a story thinking "Superman would never do that" because, in my opinion, he should absolutely be doing some of those "forbidden" things, otherwise he would bore me to death. Perfection doesn't excite me. I want to see a hero struggle and do the "wrong thing" sometimes, because that's a character whose development is worth my attention.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by GokaiRed View Post
    ... Sometimes I feel like I would be better off just reading the stories and not listening to some Superman fans. When your expectations are this high, it must be maddening to ever read a modern story with any Superman, because he's constantly getting the most insanely rigid comparisons to whatever your ideal happens to be. And anything else is wrong, therefore unacceptable as a part of the story.

    It is precisely because these Supermen in this run are not like certain other versions that I actually care about this story in the first place. I don't want to read about a morally perfect person at the peak of humanistic perfection in every respect. I don't want to go into a story thinking "Superman would never do that" because, in my opinion, he should absolutely be doing some of those "forbidden" things, otherwise he would bore me to death. Perfection doesn't excite me. I want to see a hero struggle and do the "wrong thing" sometimes, because that's a character whose development is worth my attention.
    Then Superman isn't for you.

  15. #90
    patience gone in 3, 2... GokaiRed's Avatar
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    Obviously, this one is. Otherwise, I wouldn't be reading it...

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