Action Comics #9 Preview/Eventual Discussion

[vitruvian]

Absolutely agree with this. I can suspend disbelief to a certain point before I have to call out the ridiculousness of it. The public not recognizing that the POTUS and Superman are one and the same is ridiculous when his only disguise is glasses and acting. And, from the story, it doesn't look like he's wearing glasses. Unless he's doing something else to hide his identity or its public knowledge that the POTUS and Superman are one and the same, then I'm saying it's too absurd to the nth degree.

Pre-Crisis, Clark Kent was a news broadcaster and managed it, so I don't think the secret identity thing is necessarily a deal breaker. There are ways around it.

However, unless Earth-23 had a constitutional amendment to the whole 'natural-born citizen' thing, this version is POTUS under false pretenses, as that's a baby being put in the rocket, not a 'birthing matrix'.

[adkal]

Pre-Crisis, Clark Kent was a news broadcaster and managed it, so I don't think the secret identity thing is necessarily a deal breaker. There are ways around it.

Super-hypnotism via the glasses...

[Space_Butler]

It is illegal to lie to the American people, especially about the fact that one is not a natural born citizen of the United States. It's not illegal to lie to your friends and loved ones. If Superman wants to be POTUS and being POTUS and Superman puts the country at risk, then the American people have a right to vote on whether or not they want to take on that risk. If the public does not want to take on the risk, then Superman won't become POTUS and the USA wouldn't be a big target. Superman also has the option to NOT run for office because he recognizes the problems and risks associated with it. He doesn't have to be the President. So, with that in mind, I don't believe I'm being unreasonable.

You're being unreasonable because with no proof or literary evidence, you're projecting what YOU know/think about OUR office and OUR reality into a work of fiction that right up front admits no ties or resemblance to our own. Almost every statement you made above is purely subjective, yet you speak as if you have mountains of evidence to back them up. And the few things you try to prove, you have no ACTUAL TEXTUAL EVIDENCE to. YOu aren't even arguing characterization anymore, you're arguing morality as it applies to politics. You've gotten so far away from your original point you're just pontificating some weird Fox News-ian hybrid of "MY Superman doesn't do that!" and "Here's why comics can't be real".

That makes you a literalist, pedantic, unimaginative, egocentric, and stubborn. Oh, and to reiterate, unreasonable.

Those complaining about this stuff, anyway, are operating under the assumption that they HAVE to like a character or that a character has to conform to their ideal. This is wrong in every conceivable way. We don't know this Superman, and there's nothing to say he's exactly the same as the "real" Superman. If your view is that the actions of this Superman make him a liar, then that is his character to you and that's just the way it is, but no writer owes you anything in conforming to your ideals. Comics are art, and art is entirely subjective. If you don't like it, that's one thing, but this notion of demanding conformity to individual expectations is both egotistical and disgusting. As an example, I think the Ultimate version of Captain America is a xenophobic, jingoistic, ptsd'd psychopath whose only useful talent is beating people half to death. Some people would call him badass, or agree with the way he thinks and does things. That's not "MY" Cap, but that's the character as he exists in that literary universe, and demanding that art conform to what I want is wrong in every sense of the word.

[notorious_g3]

A black president Superman? Is DC trying for some federal tax dodge? This just seems like just so much buttkissing to me... But I'll still buy it and probably enjoy it too, so what the hell do I know? :p

To quote Lisa Simpson... "It's so diverse! I've died and gone to a PBS kid's show!"

[thepenguin]

Putting myself in the position of an American citizen in this universe (or really any universe), it would not be legal or acceptable for the President of the United States to be elected and to perform his executive duties while lying to the American public about his true identity and his interactions with alien lifeforms. If Superman is going to be POTUS, then he has to be upfront with the American people about everything that may be relevant to national security so they can make an informed decision about the future of their country.

The whole Superman/Clark dynamic is built on white lies for the so called greater good. You want real? I am sure the real world public would have loved to know Lois, ace reporter, was sleeping with Superman if he were real and married to her. The lady who won Pulizers and who claimed to be bringing the truth to people and always mainly lauding Superman...never brought the truth on that one, did she? In the real world she'd be criticized severely for that.

But I am sure you will let that one go. I mean she's doing it for the greater good and (herself I would add) but just know not everyone in the nation in the real world would necessarily like or would support Superman, the alien, with all that power being in the position of being able to policing them. Superman should be upfront even if he is not President in the real world.

[misslane38]

You're being unreasonable because with no proof or literary evidence, you're projecting what YOU know/think about OUR office and OUR reality into a work of fiction that right up front admits no ties or resemblance to our own.

I'm being unreasonable because I'm applying basic knowledge of the U.S. Constitution and politics to a story featuring Superman as the President of the United States? I get that sci-fi bends the rules of reality, but that doesn't mean ALL the rules are thrown out the window. The best sci-fi stories balance the fantastical with the real, and in most cases sci-fi stories about American government tend to get the basics right.

Almost every statement you made above is purely subjective, yet you speak as if you have mountains of evidence to back them up. And the few things you try to prove, you have no ACTUAL TEXTUAL EVIDENCE to. YOu aren't even arguing characterization anymore, you're arguing morality as it applies to politics. You've gotten so far away from your original point you're just pontificating some weird Fox News-ian hybrid of "MY Superman doesn't do that!" and "Here's why comics can't be real".

Huh? My original point was the ethical implications of Superman lying to the American people. I have not moved away from that line of discussion at all. The only evidence I've used is the U.S. Constitution in addition to laying out the options this AU Superman had to avoid committing high crimes and misdemeanors worthy of impeachment.

That makes you a literalist, pedantic, unimaginative, egocentric, and stubborn. Oh, and to reiterate, unreasonable.

It's unreasonable to question the integrity of a Superman who would potentially swear to uphold the U.S. Constitution while knowing he was already breaking one of its principles?

Those complaining about this stuff, anyway, are operating under the assumption that they HAVE to like a character or that a character has to conform to their ideal. This is wrong in every conceivable way. We don't know this Superman, and there's nothing to say he's exactly the same as the "real" Superman. If your view is that the actions of this Superman make him a liar, then that is his character to you and that's just the way it is, but no writer owes you anything in conforming to your ideals.

If Morrison wants to write an AU Superman who isn't a true defender of truth, justice, and the American way, I can deal with that. The text should acknowledge that's the case, though, because otherwise it will appear as though readers are supposed to think this Superman is conforming to the ideal.

Comics are art, and art is entirely subjective. If you don't like it, that's one thing, but this notion of demanding conformity to individual expectations is both egotistical and disgusting.

I'm not demanding conformity. I'm demanding that Morrison write a comic that doesn't avoid interrogating the conflicts and questions his story generates. If he wants to write about an AU Superman who is also POTUS, then he should be prepared to deal with the story implications of that narrative decision.

As an example, I think the Ultimate version of Captain America is a xenophobic, jingoistic, ptsd'd psychopath whose only useful talent is beating people half to death. Some people would call him badass, or agree with the way he thinks and does things. That's not "MY" Cap, but that's the character as he exists in that literary universe, and demanding that art conform to what I want is wrong in every sense of the word.

I'm not demanding that this AU Superman conform to a perfect ideal, I'm questioning whether I'm supposed to accept him as the perfect ideal despite the fact that his position as POTUS raises a number of questions about constitutionality and ethics.

[misslane38]

The whole Superman/Clark dynamic is built on white lies for the so called greater good. You want real? I am sure the real world public would have loved to know Lois, ace reporter, was sleeping with Superman if he were real and married to her. The lady who won Pulizers and who claimed to be bringing the truth to people and always mainly lauding Superman...never brought the truth on that one, did she? In the real world she'd be criticized severely for that.

Lois never shied away from writing articles critical of Superman even while she was married to him and all of her articles presented verifiable truths. If there was any proof of bias, I would agree with you, but I'm pretty sure that was never the case.

But I am sure you will let that one go. I mean she's doing it for the greater good and (herself I would add) but just know not everyone in the nation in the real world would necessarily like or would support Superman, the alien, with all that power being in the position of being able to policing them. Superman should be upfront even if he is not President in the real world.

The bottom line for me is that Superman should never even consider running for office. Being the leader of the free world and the world's greatest supehero wouldn't be a problem if Superman chose not to seek the office of President of the United States.

[The Batman]

The bottom line for me is that Superman should never even consider running for office. Being the leader of the free world and the world's greatest supehero wouldn't be a problem if Superman chose not to seek the office of President of the United States.

But this isn't "our" Superman. The dramatic value of parallel and alternate versions of characters is what they reveal about the main character through interaction and juxtaposition. In telling a story of this alternate Superman who has run for office, one possible implication may well be why "our" Superman shouldn't or wouldn't.

[misslane38]

But this isn't "our" Superman. The dramatic value of parallel and alternate versions of characters is what they reveal about the main character through interaction and juxtaposition.

He's not "our" Superman? Thanks for telling me. I could have sworn I kept saying he was an AU Superman, but I guess I didn't. No wait, I did. Thanks for educating me on how AUs work, too. It's not like I'm saying an AU featuring Superman as POTUS should generate questions or anything. No, of course not, I haven't said that at all. I've only repeatedly made the point that the exact parallels and juxtapositions this new universe will create should lead readers to critically analyze the integrity of this Superman and highlight the inherent problems with having Superman as POTUS. As long as I'm not supposed to accept this AU Superman as the "ideal," then I'm cool.

[Lexrules]

It's hasn't been "our" Superman for a very long time.

I just wanted to type "our" Superman for some reason.

[The Batman]

He's not "our" Superman? Thanks for telling me. I could have sworn I kept saying he was an AU Superman, but I guess I didn't. No wait, I did. Thanks for educating me on how AUs work, too. It's not like I'm saying an AU featuring Superman as POTUS should generate questions or anything. No, of course not, I haven't said that at all. I've only repeatedly made the point that the exact parallels and juxtapositions this new universe will create should lead readers to critically analyze the integrity of this Superman and highlight the inherent problems with having Superman as POTUS. As long as I'm not supposed to accept this AU Superman as the "ideal," then I'm cool.

Gee, the tone, tenor, and "bottom line" nature of your comments sure did make it seem otherwise.

[Cavemold]

I don't like his basic origins at all. Its the exactly the same thing as Clark's... Come on grant

[misslane38]

Gee, the tone, tenor, and "bottom line" nature of your comments sure did make it seem otherwise.

Yeah, um, the "bottom line" for me was that Superman should never consider running for or taking public office if he intends on subverting Constitutional principles. If Superman does want to take that unethical step in any universe, then he is not the "ideal" and thus his integrity should be questioned.

[Mr. Holmes]

He's not "our" Superman? Thanks for telling me. I could have sworn I kept saying he was an AU Superman, but I guess I didn't.

No problem. People seem to forget it.

[adkal]

Yeah, um, the "bottom line" for me was that Superman should never consider running for or taking public office if he intends on subverting Constitutional principles. If Superman does want to take that unethical step in any universe, then he is not the "ideal" and thus his integrity should be questioned.

Isn't this whole argument a little pointless at the moment, though? We don't yet know what the issue contains, what the background to him becoming President is, etc.

If the Constitution is amended (Demolition Man) and he's forthcoming with his identity (Action Comics Annual 3) then would your argument be that he shouldn't be Superman [u]and[/i] the President of the United States, even though the people have voted him in to be?

Out of curiosity, have you read Action Comics Annual 3?