Jessica Jones is worst character in New Avengers

[Zen-aku]

Ok, if you don't want Wolverine to attack you, don't pull a gun on him. It won't even slow him down. You should just lay down on the floor, hands on your head. He's a killer, but he's not so bad as to just execute someone laying there, especially with the rest of the Avengers there.

she was scared and doesn't trust them, she doesn't see them as super heroes she sees them as agents with super powers

And yes, maybe Osborn kept somethings away from her. But look at how much crap he pulled, in the open. Damn near everything he did was terrible. He couldn't have hidden all of it. If he did, what did she think he was doing all day?

Working on the stuff she did know about

S

pend ten minutes in the room with him and you'll see he's not a nice guy. The American Son program was exposed long before Siege. That happened in The List: Spider-Man. He exposed what Osborn did to the whole world right then and there. So she knew, while she was serving under him.

just because some thing is released on the internet doesn't mean it was true, keep in mind, the government nor the public completely turned on ousborune, and hand wasn't completely ok with ousbounre and what he did for the shit he did do, again Hand and many others thought that despite being a bastard he was the best hing for the world

And why don't Skrulls count? They're sentient beings. If they don't count, then half the Marvel characters don't count.ey were prisoners, and they were fed to Venom.

They are genocidal aliens that tried to take over the world, they don't count in the mindset of the government, hell in the real world we do just as bad to human prisoners you really think any one is gonna give a shit about the skrulls

ThAnd the Humanity Now riots were pretty black and white. That was were they arrested Beast. And the treatment was very illegal. It violated human rights, set down by the UN charter, among other things.

a bunch of super human's a started a riot, you can justify extreme acts being taken

And Venom killed a hooker, inside the tower, during the Dark Spider-Man mini.And everybody knew about the continued cannibalism, since he kept trying to eat people

The DA knew but Hand and their handlers were told he was heavily medicated [and he was most the time]

And I have problems with the TBolts program. Redeeming villains, fine. But that's not why Venom, Bullseye, and Osborn were there.But at least they didn't disguise the fact that they were villains, then.

Ousborune was in charge, and they were the government sponsored avengers, it was the same deal no mater what costumes they wore

And Magneto doesn't justify the Sentinels. They were designed to hunt and exterminate mutants. He's one, albeit dangerous, mutant. You can't justify genocide based on the actions of a few.

but it wasn't just a few, and Magneto represents all the dangers in mutants, he is just one man, imagine 10 individuals with his power level with his mindset or worse, Magneto dose justify shit like the sentinels

And Osborn was all about control. If he couldn't control it, he destroyed it. It didn't matter if it made the world better, or safe.

that goes against what he said at the end of DA

They could have foreshadowed Agamotto's turn easily. They could have started by dropping the whole Vishanti are no more thing ahead of time, instead of everything all at the same damn time. Cosmic forces for good don't turn evil at the drop of a hat. And I would call destroying a whole reality pretty evil.

how he wasn't a character that could drop hints, and major forshadowing would of ruined the reveal

O

ne more thing: She kept him from having a meltdown, quite a few time. He was on the verge the whole second half. There are plenty guys with good vision. Maybe the one who's two seconds from painting his face green and tossing people off bridges isn't really fit for a high stress job like head of national security. Just saying.

that was the pint, she tried to keep him on the wagon but she ultimately failed, if we look at his choices, Tony wasn't really fit for the job ether

[Lascoden]

She never really did anything important and her sole purpose, to "humanize" the superhero life, has become tiresome and repetitive, although it was great at first. I'm terribly bored of her and she takes the edge away from Luke Cage a bit I find.

She was supposed to humanize them? Well, I guess the Avengers don't really have "real" issues. I mean, it's not like any of them have kids, or families, or lose loved ones, or have relationship issues like getting married, divorced, or just dating. Wait...

[Zen-aku]

You did miss the Bulleye and Utopia issues! You also have a very strange idea what a crime against humanity is.

She didn't know what bullseye did, and Utopia was them trying to quell civil unrest, in both cases the crimes are ousbournes

a
It was both treason and mutiny since milatray commnaderss are not llowed to Star wars on theier own and not allowed to ignore presidential orders to back off. If it was a "Military" operation Hand had a duty to shoot Osborn if necessary to stop him

One Did she know she was disobeying Ousborunes orders, 2. didn't the mutiny part come later after the initial invasion

[Zen-aku]

She was supposed to humanize them? Well, I guess the Avengers don't really have "real" issues. I mean, it's not like any of them have kids, or families, or lose loved ones, or have relationship issues like getting married, divorced, or just dating. Wait...

he meant humanize cage, which she did, she has added allot to cage's character

[Lascoden]

she was scared and doesn't trust them, she doesn't see them as super heroes she sees them as agents with super powers


Working on the stuff she did know about

Sjust because some thing is released on the internet doesn't mean it was true, keep in mind, the government nor the public completely turned on ousborune, and hand wasn't completely ok with ousbounre and what he did for the shit he did do, again Hand and many others thought that despite being a bastard he was the best hing for the world


They are genocidal aliens that tried to take over the world, they don't count in the mindset of the government, hell in the real world we do just as bad to human prisoners you really think any one is gonna give a shit about the skrulls

a bunch of super human's a started a riot, you can justify extreme acts being taken

The DA knew but Hand and their handlers were told he was heavily medicated [and he was most the time]

Ousborune was in charge, and they were the government sponsored avengers, it was the same deal no mater what costumes they wore

but it wasn't just a few, and Magneto represents all the dangers in mutants, he is just one man, imagine 10 individuals with his power level with his mindset or worse, Magneto dose justify shit like the sentinels

that goes against what he said at the end of DA

how he wasn't a character that could drop hints, and major forshadowing would of ruined the reveal

Othat was the pint, she tried to keep him on the wagon but she ultimately failed, if we look at his choices, Tony wasn't really fit for the job ether

But what made Osborn so damned special? He was lousy at his job. Everything he tried to do, Utopia, Siege, the Cabal, ended in complete failure. And all of those were him doing despicable things, quite openly. And Hand was right there with him. He made heartless monsters public heroes. He attempted to imprison, or destroy, mutants who didn't follow him. He started a pointless war against a potential ally. With the Skrulls, I don't care if everybody was doing it. They were no longer trying to conquer. It was wrong. It was evil. She took part in it. With the riots, there is a difference between extreme action, and torturing prisoners. And what did Xavier do to land in prison? He was there before the laws passed. Before the riots. They still tortured him. And Venom kept trying to eat people while on the DA, during their missions.

And Osborn is all about control. It's his entire character. He attempts to control his business. He attempts to control his son. He attempts to control the city, through whatever means. It's his problem with the Goblin. It has long been established that Osborn is a terrible, awful person, even without the Goblin. So why doesn't he embrace it? It does what he wants to, what's so bad about it from his point of view? Simple: It's because he's not in control, the Goblin is. He attempts to control everything as a way of fighting the Goblin. He is a living battle of Chaos vs Order. But, Order isn't always good. That's where the misconception is. That's what they fell for. Osborn has to control everything, and if he can't he eliminates it. Maybe Hand fell for that, too. Maybe she fell for his sob story, and just ignored all the crimes, violations of human rights, and atrocities. Maybe she didn't notice these things, despite it being the very reason she was there. In which case, she shouldn't be in charge of the Avengers, or anything for that matter. Maybe she actually bought into it, and knew exactly what Osborn was. She seemed to. I find that far more likely, in fact. In which case, she's just as bad as he is, and deserves every bit of punishment he gets.

Edit: Wow, thanks mike. I totally forgot that the whole damned invasion was completely illegal, and against express orders from the POTUS, the CiC. That makes it about 1000x worse.

[Zen-aku]

But what made Osborn so damned special? He was lousy at his job.Everything he tried to do, Utopia, Siege, the Cabal, ended in complete failure.

not completely, he shifted the power, gained props with the super villain community for looking out for them kept the job longer then any one thought possible, The cabal actually worked for a bit

And all of those were him doing despicable things, quite openly. And Hand was right there with him. He made heartless monsters public heroes.

The government employ assholes all the time, stop looking at hands actions as a black and white issue. The avnegers under ousbournes rule were a military operation if any hting

With the Skrulls, I don't care if everybody was doing it. They were no longer trying to conquer. It was wrong. It was evil. She took part in it.

Only because they lost, with what they did they don't count under geneva conventions, and no one will feel bad for them

With the riots, there is a difference between extreme action, and torturing prisoners.

only for children And what did Xavier do to land in prison?

And Venom kept trying to eat people while on the DA, during their missions.

and then they tried to bring him under controll. he was warned not to when he did

And Osborn is all about control. It's his entire character. He attempts to control his business. He attempts to control his son. He attempts to control the city, through whatever means. It's his problem with the Goblin. It has long been established that Osborn is a terrible, awful person, even without the Goblin. So why doesn't he embrace it? It does what he wants to, what's so bad about it from his point of view? Simple: It's because he's not in control, the Goblin is. He attempts to control everything as a way of fighting the Goblin. He is a living battle of Chaos vs Order. But, Order isn't always good. That's where the misconception is.

yes he also thinks his control can save the world and make it better, was he right? no was the things he did horible ? yes. Did he see legitimate threats that would be better off taken care of? yes

That's what they fell for. Osborn has to control everything, and if he can't he eliminates it. Maybe Hand fell for that, too. Maybe she fell for his sob story, and just ignored all the crimes, violations of human rights, and atrocities. Maybe she didn't notice these things, despite it being the very reason she was there. In which case, she shouldn't be in charge of the Avengers, or anything for that matter.

then no one deserves a second chance. not wanda, not pym, not cap, not tony no one. Hand couldn't get him removed, she was on the side that super humans, mutants and hulks were a huge threat, she new he was a bastard, she took the job because she thought she could do some good with a shit situation

I find that far more likely, in fact. In which case, she's just as bad as he is, and deserves every bit of punishment he gets.

and you would be wrong because that is not what is depicted on panel

[Lascoden]

not completely, he shifted the power, gained props with the super villain community for looking out for them kept the job longer then any one thought possible, The cabal actually worked for a bit



The government employ assholes all the time, stop looking at hands actions as a black and white issue. The avnegers under ousbournes rule were a military operation if any hting

Only because they lost, with what they did they don't count under geneva conventions, and no one will feel bad for them

only for children And what did Xavier do to land in prison?

and then they tried to bring him under controll. he was warned not to when he did

yes he also thinks his control can save the world and make it better, was he right? no was the things he did horible ? yes. Did he see legitimate threats that would be better off taken care of? yes


then no one deserves a second chance. not wanda, not pym, not cap, not tony no one. Hand couldn't get him removed, she was on the side that super humans, mutants and hulks were a huge threat, she new he was a bastard, she took the job because she thought she could do some good with a shit situation
and you would be wrong because that is not what is depicted on panel

The Cabal were all out for themselves, and turned on Osborn the first chance they got. I wouldn't really call that working. Some things are black and white. Torturing innocent civilian. Executions of POWs. Unlawful human experimentation. Those are all bad things, under any circumstance. Not everything is grey. Just because they were a military op doesn't give them free reign, They aren't except from any laws, of ethics. And do you know how POWs work? Because, "they lost" is not an excuse to start killing them. That's one of those things that's always wrong, no matter what. And just cause nobody feels bad, doesn't make it right. People are suppose to rise up above baser instincts like revenge. And this is what Xavier did to land in a torture cell: Nothing. Osborn basically kidnapped him so that he could torture him, drain his powers, and have Mystique impersonate him. So, no laws broken there. Even if he did, still doesn't excuse all the human rights violations on the other prisoners. When a cop arrests some one, they aren't allowed to throw them in a cell and then proceed to break their arms and legs. And hey, I guess they warned Venom not to eat people. Didn't stop him, though. Really, after the first few times, probably should take him out of the field. And all those things that he was wrong about, that you list? About controlling the world? About the terrible things? That's exactly what I'm talking about. Osborn had a vision for the world. It was one where you either fall in line and follow his orders, or you will be crushed, and mutilated in the most inhumane ways possible. And when I hear Hand say things like "I support you because I believe in your vision" what am I supposed to think? That she is so grossly incompetent as to not see what's staring here in the face, so oblivious to her surroundings that she doesn't notice that her boss is evil, that she is unparalleled in stupidity? I mean, sure, the common citizen bought his act, but she had a front row seat. Or, should I see it as her being half-way intelligent, and that she can see his vision, and that she does in fact agree with it? Which is better? As to what she could have done? Lots. For one, she could have pulled the plug on the whole thing. She could have reported him as crazy. He would of lost his post, declared not fit for duty. She even threatened it a few times. Barring that, how about a bullet in the head ? The next guy could be bad, but it's hard to top the Green Freaking Goblin. But no, she helped him carry on. I try not to blame people for the actions of others. But, how much damage did she do keeping him in charge? It wasn't a "couldn't" situation, it was a "doesn't want to".

And again: I'm all for second chances. But not everybody gets one. For one, they have to be repentant. She wasn't. They paid for their mistakes. She hasn't. Unless you count demotion from "second in command of federal agency" to "overseer of one of the world's premier super teams" a demotion. It's a far cry from life imprisonment, which is what she deserves.

[Aaric Rivad]

Thank god she made the right choice at the end. Guess that makes up for all the crimes against humanity she was an accomplice to during Dark Reign.
I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks Norman Osborn is best for the nation, is either just as evil as him, or the dumbest person alive who shouldn't oversee anything, let alone the Avengers. He's the Green Freaking Goblin. He's not evil because he's crazy. He's just an evil dick. She wandered around while he put psychopaths like Daken and Bullseye on a team, and thought this was the right thing to do.

Well, this is the country that picked George W. Bush and Dick Cheney... twice!

[Lascoden]

Well, this is the country that picked George W. Bush and Dick Cheney... twice!

Ugh, don't remind me. I like to think we aren't as dumb as the MU citizens, and the fact that an actual hobgoblin got elected vice-president just shatters that.

[Monty_Cristo]

Ugh, don't remind me. I like to think we aren't as dumb as the MU citizens.

the tobacco industry is still thriving. Birthers. etc.

the MU is just a full blown idiocracy.

[NewMutant]

Jessica Jones was a great character when she was first introduced. By entering the mainstream MU though, she has lost a lot of what made her unique in Alias. She is no longer a powered outsider. She is one of the cool kids now.

This exactly. Alias is one of the best series of modern comics. She was something different. It was more interesting, new, and creative to see her struggle with finding an identity after being a failed super hero. That is something we haven't seen before. She's lost the spotlight and the struggle, and it makes her generic.

[Nomads1]

Realize I never got to comment on the actual topic of the thread (got into a Cage tangent), but I can't deny I've come to abhor the character under Bendis in NA. That being said, I quite liked Jessica when I first had contact with her in Young Avengers #1. Never read Alias. The premise of the book didn't intrest me and I always found mature super-heroes comics kind of an oxymoron, as well as unstaisying. After catching a glimpse of that scene that destroyed the childhood memories of many fans, I felt confident that I had made the right choice in ignoring it. Not my cup of tea. But I kinda liked her in her breif appearencein Young Avengers (well, not so brief. She actually played quite an important part in the series), however, I'm now at the point wher I would not mind if they killed her and/or we never got to see the characters again. Maybe that way we can get the old Luke Cage, Power Man back.

Peace

[Old Sparky]

The old Luke Cage who used to nail anything that moved, including Anne-Marie Hoag --the overweight, and much older than Cage, head of Damage Control?

[Monty_Cristo]

The old Luke Cage who used to nail anything that moved, including Anne-Marie Hoag --the overweight, and much older than Cage, head of Damage Control?

little known fact. Bendis created that image of Cage you just gave us. Cage was smooth but tended to have actual relationships. try to find any evidence of him one-night standing anyone prior to Alias or that slightly offensive MAX Cage series.