Julia Diggers vs Cassandra Cain

[Kage Kisaragi]

I haven't read much of Gold Digger in a very long time, used to love the series but I lost track of the books, and when i got back into comics again I was pretty much a DC follower. Having read pretty much every trade I could get my hands on with Cassie in it, and knowing that Julia was her homeworlds Weapons Master of Jade, I think it was called, and I think she regained the title again a second time after completing her training in her fighting style and become a recognized master in her own right. I figured why not match up these two women who's fighting prowess are legendary and see what happens. I can't list as many feats for Julia off the top of my head as its been a long while, and shes not a central to the over all story so her adventures usually took place in flashbacks or small narrative stories of her youth, (shes been some what de-aged last I read thanks to the renewing palm technique.) so im not sure how she places in terms of ability compared to Cassie but the Gold Digger verse is definitely mid to high tier god-like magical beings, and a place where knowing the martial arts can grant you a chance of defeating things that probably would kill any normal person with little effort.

Julia in the past has been a adventurer and a pirate.
Her Father was pretty much a master martial artist himself whos claim to fame was defeating her mother with his drastically smaller frame. Speaking of her mother, her mom was a huge viking like warrior maiden, and when I saw huge I mean, like she was really, really big, this is before Julia received the renewing palm but its still a good showing of how powerful her mother was even at her much older age.

As far as the match goes, Julia is using her martial arts skills and isn't using her trademark sword fighting skills. They fight in the normal Khazan arena, no prep fighters start at about 60ft a part.

[Sharpandpointies]

Couple of questions.

1. Straight-up hand to hand, or does Cass have equipment?

2. Definitely going to need feats for Julia. Speed, strength/striking power, skill, durability, special abilities, etc.

[Kage Kisaragi]

1.) Hand 2 Hand for Cassie and Julia both.
2.) I'll try place feats for Julia's abilities though i hate the idea of digging through the comics I have as im sure all my GD comics are in boxes. Anyone with any contributing info is welcome at this point.

[Sharkerbob]

I've been reading some GD comics recently, though I'm not all the way through them. I'm sure she's got better feats later on, but from what I've seen:

I'm gunna say Cass probably takes this one, just due to speed and body-reading, and probably being stronger. Julia is a freakin' beast in hand-to-hand, but she's probably not Cass's level (especially whatever Cass's strongest point was, I'm sure).

Julia demonstrates a "body reading" skill that sufficiently enables her to out-maneuver and throw, strike, or pin the superhumanly fast and strong werecreatures and monsters, even her daughter Brittany (who, as a werecheetah, is one of the fastest types). However, this isn't as advanced as Cass's, and is a skill any veteran fighter picks up.

Julia is also fast herself, at least comic book peak human, but I don't think she's dodging bullets, at least with the ease the Cass does. She is fast enough to evade Cheetah's strikes, but that's a combination of body-reading and speed on her part.

Julia is sufficiently strong enough to deal damage and even mortal blows to much bigger creatures, including dragons and giant humanoids, and I believe she broke through a stone wall once. I think. Maybe. She might be in Cass's strength level, but I'm not sure.

Julia does gain the "renewing" ability, which will cure all of her wounds and refresh her stamina, though it also de-ages her some. Any other abilities, I'm not sure about; chi techniques exist in the GD universe, but I haven't seen her use any.

[Sharpandpointies]

Eeenteresting. Sounds like a nice fight. I'd be curious to see Julia's top-end speefeats, as it's always fun trying to figure out how fast someone is based on that kind of thing.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I've been reading some GD comics recently, though I'm not all the way through them. I'm sure she's got better feats later on, but from what I've seen:

I'm gunna say Cass probably takes this one, just due to speed and body-reading, and probably being stronger. Julia is a freakin' beast in hand-to-hand, but she's probably not Cass's level (especially whatever Cass's strongest point was, I'm sure).

Julia demonstrates a "body reading" skill that sufficiently enables her to out-maneuver and throw, strike, or pin the superhumanly fast and strong werecreatures and monsters, even her daughter Brittany (who, as a werecheetah, is one of the fastest types). However, this isn't as advanced as Cass's, and is a skill any veteran fighter picks up.

Julia is also fast herself, at least comic book peak human, but I don't think she's dodging bullets, at least with the ease the Cass does. She is fast enough to evade Cheetah's strikes, but that's a combination of body-reading and speed on her part.

Julia is sufficiently strong enough to deal damage and even mortal blows to much bigger creatures, including dragons and giant humanoids, and I believe she broke through a stone wall once. I think. Maybe. She might be in Cass's strength level, but I'm not sure.

Julia does gain the "renewing" ability, which will cure all of her wounds and refresh her stamina, though it also de-ages her some. Any other abilities, I'm not sure about; chi techniques exist in the GD universe, but I haven't seen her use any.

this sounds like a good start, though when i get a moment i will still scan my comics for more feats and hopefully for more visual aids. I know she defeats Zero who was built up to be a nearly unstoppable killing machine with skill unmatched when it comes to fighting.

[Sharkerbob]

Eeenteresting. Sounds like a nice fight. I'd be curious to see Julia's top-end speefeats, as it's always fun trying to figure out how fast someone is based on that kind of thing.

this sounds like a good start, though when i get a moment i will still scan my comics for more feats and hopefully for more visual aids. I know she defeats Zero who was built up to be a nearly unstoppable killing machine with skill unmatched when it comes to fighting.

Hmm... I've still got a lot of issues to go through (half way through the B&W series, about 15 issues into the color series), but if I find some particularly good feats, I'll try and post them up. In Julia's case, being a supporting character, she mostly isn't the focus of the story arcs, so her appearances are infrequent, except for the Armsmaster of Jade arc where she's the main character focus. Some awesome fights there, especially against G'Nolga.

[Sharpandpointies]

How fast is the Cheetah-girl? Because it could be the difference between a legit speedfeat and massive PIS.

At a certain point in speed difference, you can have all the skill in the world and be able to read the other person on a Cassandra Cain level, and it won't make a difference. Obviously the poster-child comic example of this is Mr. X versus Quicksilver (much laughter), but it doesn't even take that kind of speed difference. 3-4x faster, and a less-skilled fighter is going to blitz the crap out of a skilled one.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Not counting the Tempest Mode power up... Cheetah during Gold Digger Beta (the first ever Gold Digger comic I bought.), could maintain speeds up to Mach 3.. she casually broke the Sound Barrier with little effort, she could throw a tennis shoe with enough force to also create said sonic boom, ... I seem to remember a issue in which Cheetah experiments with her new level of speed and traverses a huge distance from the peak of a mountain to a suburban area I think. She has Super-Speed is my main point, to the point she'd definitely be able to blitz the run of the mill martial artist from DC.

However I'll point out these instances were after the previous Black and White scan. While the power creep is very slow and enemies always stay competitive, I think there was a big enough difference between what was posted and what Cheetah normally contends with.

[Sharkerbob]

How fast is the Cheetah-girl? Because it could be the difference between a legit speedfeat and massive PIS.

At a certain point in speed difference, you can have all the skill in the world and be able to read the other person on a Cassandra Cain level, and it won't make a difference. Obviously the poster-child comic example of this is Mr. X versus Quicksilver (much laughter), but it doesn't even take that kind of speed difference. 3-4x faster, and a less-skilled fighter is going to blitz the crap out of a skilled one.

It's kinda hard to pin down, at least given what I've seen.

A wiki says she can run at 200 mph, but can go even faster in quick bursts. Cheetah was blitzing a werewolf pretty easily when she took him by surprise, and the werewolves are also supposed to be faster than humans. This supposedly has a proportional increase in reflex and combat speed.

But, I don't mean to oversell it. I haven't seen Brit, much less Julia, dodge bullets or the like (at least not flat-out, yet, though she can aim dodge easily), though it wouldn't surprise me if they do at some point eventually. However, that's why I think Cass takes this, due to speed.

As for the scan, that was more to demonstrate what I meant by "body reading", and Brit's probably holding back some. That or her actual combat speed isn't that much greater than other were-creatures, and her superwere speed is mainly in running.

Of course, it could also indicate Julia's actually faster than I thought, but again, I'm having a hard time coming up with something definitive. Certainly, she has to be fast to actually pull off the maneuvers she does, but it is noted several times that her out-maneuvering is partially due to skill and "body reading."

[Sharkerbob]

Not counting the Tempest Mode power up... Cheetah during Gold Digger Beta (the first ever Gold Digger comic I bought.), could maintain speeds up to Mach 3.. she casually broke the Sound Barrier with little effort, she could throw a tennis shoe with enough force to also create said sonic boom, ... I seem to remember a issue in which Cheetah experiments with her new level of speed and traverses a huge distance from the peak of a mountain to a suburban area I think. She has Super-Speed is my main point, to the point she'd definitely be able to blitz the run of the mill martial artist from DC.

However I'll point out these instances were after the previous Black and White scan. While the power creep is very slow and enemies always stay competitive, I think there was a big enough difference between what was posted and what Cheetah normally contends with.

Yikes. Well, there ya go. Yeah, at the time of the scan, that's only, what, issue 26 of the first series, so Cheetah's not that fast at that point. And, again, not sure how much more powerful Julia herself gets.

[Sharpandpointies]

It comes down to whether or not Julia is legitimately fast enough to do well against someone who is a mach 3 speedster, then.

If she isn't, it's PIS (or, assuming the Cheetah-girl is slower at that point than she is at the Mach 3 point in the comic, it's not really a useable feat unless we know how MUCH slower she is).

If she is (and has feats to prove it, or doesn't have anything to counteract the assumption of said speed), she annihilates Cass based on speed.

[Iron_twister]

Huh, just when I managed to get some Gold Digger volumes...And sadly nothing with Julia. :(

[Kage Kisaragi]

It comes down to whether or not Julia is legitimately fast enough to do well against someone who is a mach 3 speedster, then.

If she isn't, it's PIS (or, assuming the Cheetah-girl is slower at that point than she is at the Mach 3 point in the comic, it's not really a useable feat unless we know how MUCH slower she is).

If she is (and has feats to prove it, or doesn't have anything to counteract the assumption of said speed), she annihilates Cass based on speed.

Julia is in no way as fast as Cheetah currently is or was at the time of Gold Digger beta, but Cheetah doesn't fight under those circumstances, shes not fighting at her highest speed whenever a fight breaks out..im currently scanning the tennis shoe feat and im unfortunately regretting that i cannot find lot of my GD comics and the ones i have found are scattered issues.


Second panel lower left hand corner.. the sonic boom tennis shoe attack.

[Sharpandpointies]

Julia is in no way as fast as Cheetah currently is or was at the time of Gold Digger beta, but Cheetah doesn't fight under those circumstances, shes not fighting at her highest speed whenever a fight breaks out..im currently scanning the tennis shoe feat and im unfortunately regretting that i cannot find lot of my GD comics and the ones i have found are scattered issues.

So the problem is then figuring out what the feat really means.

Cheetah is a superspeedster. Cheetah wasn't using her speed in a serious manner.

.....

This leaves us nowhere. -_-