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  1. #76
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    Gambit and Cecilia have nothing in common. Pretty obvious case of a writer picking two characters she likes and putting them together just because. And she doesn't even try to build it, she just mentions off-panel dates to justify the relationship. Liu's run is very fan-fic-ish, in the BAD way.
    Again, I think it was pretty obvious that what attracted Cece from a friendship standpoint was that he was not like the rumours which protrayed him as a self-serving, selfish criminal with mixed loyalties. She saw a guy going out on a limb to help a young girl find her place in the world and then helping a bunch of civilians when there was no personal gain involved and when it had nothing to do with them being mutants. Combine that with the fact that Gambit like Cece is one of the few X-men with a life beyond being an X-men and that is what they have in common. They both don't necessarily define their lives by whether they are X-men or mutants. They both are in their own way trying to have normal lives outside of being X-men and mutants. Frankly if you were going to pair Cece with a mutant, who fits better than Gambit when everyone else seems so self-involved and wrapped up into this whole save the species, save the world stuff when all Cece wants is a normal life.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 07:47 AM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Did you read my post? I said Liu said they would be circling each other. I nor Liu ever said she would be going into extreme detail developing why they would be circuling each other just that they would. However to answer your question, Liu already laid the groundwork for their friendship in X-23. Cece knew Gambit as being an X-man and a dubious one at that. She saw him help civilians not as part of some X-man mission but just because they needed help. It is not unlike how she wants to help people not as an X-man but simply as a doctor. That made Gambit someone she may now want to actually get to know. Gambit by contrast has been alienated from the X-men in large part so when Cece seemed willing to accept his response that there was more to him than the rumors, it made her someone he felt he could legitimately develop a friendship with. It also explains why he was nervous on their presumed date. Initially most Gambit fans were like why would Gambit be nervous about a date. But Gambit made clear he expected to be home early and I read his nervousness more as not because he was trying to get into her pants but that he was attempting to strike up a friendship for the first time in forever and thus felt nervous about it.
    I read your post. I just disagree with you. You are telling me your interpretation of why you think it works based on a lot of speculation not what Liu has actually shown us. I also think its absurd for CeCe to think X-Men have never helped people unless they are on missions (or believed some rumors about Gambit when she barely knew him) so that whole scene with Gambit and CeCe in X-23 came off incredibly forced to me. All I thought at the time was how stupid is CeCe anyway? Nor does Gambit live or want to live a "normal life", he just has one outside of the X-Men. Two different things. If that's all it takes then she and Wolverine should be best of buddies too.

    I assume once Liu gets around to telling the story she will expand on that but seeing as the focus was Northstar she probably didn't want to use up the panel time and for the time being just noted they have been hanging out in a plantoic way and will build on it when the story dictates. That is prefectly reasonable and bears no resemblance to Rogneto where Carey had Rogue sleeping with Mags 37 minutes after Gambit poured out his heart to her and 7 minutes after Mags finished his Nazi story. There simply is a different level of development required when you are talking about friends versus lovers.
    I agree about a romance needs more development than a friendship but I actually expect some for both and both of them gave me next to nothing as far as I''m concerned.

  3. #78

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    Gambit and CeCe being off panel best friends is a tad silly, but nothing compared other 'forced' interactions, from the 'underground mating urges' to the stupid rogento crap, so meh... *shrugs*
    Quote Originally Posted by dr.maikel View Post
    Yes.., the age different is only a thing in hypocritical America and comics get sold in Europe as well were no one would care.,
    If they were the same age everyone would look past that and see that they would work fine as a couple.,
    Even if they were the same age, she's still super emotionally screwed up and it still would be kinda creepy. but they aren't the same age and the story doesn't take place in europe.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Gambit and CeCe being off panel best friends is a tad silly, but nothing compared other 'forced' interactions, from the 'underground mating urges' to the stupid rogento crap, so meh... *shrugs*
    Agreed. The others were/are definitely worse. That they are so bad though doesn't make this "good".

    Even if they were the same age, she's still super emotionally screwed up and it still would be kinda creepy. but they aren't the same age and the story doesn't take place in europe.
    As you note, the age thing is just the tip of the iceburg of what would be wrong with it. Gambit was her mentor, someone who she came to trust as being there for her best interests as she was trying to deal with her issues/grow up - essentially an adult/older/person of power/trust/control over her in a way, a parent or surogate parent/doctor/teacher. There is complete emotional imbalance. To exploit that is the height of scumminess - see examples of Magneto and Rogue's relationship in the AoA or Emma's "laughable attempts" at being a therapist over the years both pre and post villainess periods.

  5. #80
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    People are taking the relationship all wrong. No one ever said they were "best friends". They are just two people in a big city who know each other, have some common background and wanted to get away from the X-Men life for a bit. That's all. They're flirtation we're seeing now is new and it seems just fine to me. They don't have some huge off-panel back story besides maybe one or two dinners that were established in X-23 (and they probs just went to the Hot dog cart or something). Before that, they had some moments back when CeCe first joined up with the team. Why people are acting like Liu is showing them getting engaged or something is beyond me.

  6. #81
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    I really like Gambit, and I really like Cece - but I've wanted Cece to hook up with Iceman ever since their days together during the Operation Zero Tolerance arc. I know that ship probably sailed a long time ago, but that arc seriously just made them work so well together.

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLACKWINGS View Post
    I've wanted Cece to hook up with Iceman ever since their days together during the Operation Zero Tolerance arc. I know that ship probably sailed a long time ago, but that arc seriously just made them work so well together.
    Its because they actually make some sense and their interaction made sense at the time. If anyone could understand being normal and getting an education and just living a normal life, its the accountant good son Iceman. They really do have something in common and an opposites attract quality in that he's a bit under serious and not very driven and she's too serious and over driven. That and she's been one of the few female characters that clicked with him that wasn't some flake (see Warbird - its funny but honestly she's like a bad stalker not an interesting X-Man). I liked the idea of CeCe and Hank but she and Bobby did have chemistry. I could see them going out to dinner every Friday night for two months (that is not once or twice).

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by f4faith View Post
    Its because they actually make some sense and their interaction made sense at the time. If anyone could understand being normal and getting an education and just living a normal life, its the accountant good son Iceman. They really do have something in common and an opposites attract quality in that he's a bit under serious and not very driven and she's too serious and over driven. That and she's been one of the few female characters that clicked with him that wasn't some flake (see Warbird - its funny but honestly she's like a bad stalker not an interesting X-Man). I liked the idea of CeCe and Hank but she and Bobby did have chemistry. I could see them going out to dinner every Friday night for two months (that is not once or twice).
    Hank took Cece on a date to the opera once. It didn't end well.



    I don't want to see her in a romantic relationship with Iceman, but I really hope Liu at least alludes to into their past.
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  9. #84
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    I read your post. I just disagree with you. You are telling me your interpretation of why you think it works based on a lot of speculation not what Liu has actually shown us. I also think its absurd for CeCe to think X-Men have never helped people unless they are on missions (or believed some rumors about Gambit when she barely knew him) so that whole scene with Gambit and CeCe in X-23 came off incredibly forced to me. All I thought at the time was how stupid is CeCe anyway? Nor does Gambit live or want to live a "normal life", he just has one outside of the X-Men. Two different things. If that's all it takes then she and Wolverine should be best of buddies too. .
    Has Liu shown Gambit and Cece circling each other? The answer is obviously yes so if you read my statement there was nothing to disagree with because all I said is that Liu said Gambit and Cece would circle each other and that is what she has shown. Nothing in my original post suggested anything about the mechanics of that development/protrayal so you can't disagree with something I never suggested in the first place. You decided to respond to my post by going off on a tangent which is why I said you did not read my post. I simply then decided to have the debate with you because I enjoy the debate. Now again, I will entertain the debate by responding to the rest of your post but none of this was ever suggested in my original post.

    There is not a lot of speculation involved. Cece clearly acted surprised that Gambit would help. Gambit clearly responded by saying he was not the person the rumors/gossip made him out to be. He also made a point of emphasizing not being a womaniser. If I saw two people in real life have that exchange and then two weeks later I see them watching a movie together, would I be shocked? Of course not because I would simply assume that two attractive people acquainted with each other but not knowing a whole lot about each other simply decided to find out more about each other. There is nothing odd about it at all. The only part that was really speculation was why I thought Gambit was nervous.

    And Cece would believe the rumous when she barely knew him because that is what the majority of humans do. This is a guy who other X-men (ie heros) have likely bad mouthed and who from her perspective betrayed the X-men a few times. She would have no idea about why Gambit became Death or that he was secretly helping the X-men during MC when he was a Marauder so why wouldn't she believe it when other X-man said he was bad news. Again, in real life if my good friends are telling me someone is a douche then up until I meet that person and they prove those friends wrong (by saving people when they have nothing to gain), I would naturally trust my friends opinion and assume that person is a douche. That is perfectly normal human behavior.

    And by normal life I mean one outside of being defined as an X-men and mutant. Gambit is a thief. There are a lot of thieves in the normal world. There is no comparison to Wolverine because Wolverine may want to live a normal life but he is so wrapped up in his whole school and kill so others don't have to philosophy that he does not actively try to live a normal life. Gambit does because he occassionally goes off and does what is a fairly normal occurence in real life. He steals shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    I agree about a romance needs more development than a friendship but I actually expect some for both and both of them gave me next to nothing as far as I''m concerned.
    Again, it is simply not the same. Rogue and Mags had prior history that made any pairing problematic. Carey then had Rogue and Mags have sex without addressing that prior history. Cece and Gambit had no prior problematic history. All Cece had was opinions based on second hand gossip. When she saw that this guy who she had heard was bad news do something perfectly normal and heroic, she simply reassessed and thought well this guy who also happens to be pretty hot might not be as bad as I thought. They then hung out together and apparently have been ever since.

    When Liu wants to explore that relationship further she will but there is no need to go into all the details when it is still at the we hang out on Fridays stage. Imagine if Cece were a guy. Liu would have to change very little in the story because it would just be a guy who hated being an X-man realising oh hey Gambit isn't a dick like I heard, we have a common history as X-men, he lives in the city and then next we see they hang out on Fridays drinking bears and playing pool. Would people be like why are these two friends?
    Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  10. #85
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    The foot massage and flirtatious back-and-forth; 'you so bad, cajun,' left me with the impression that their relationship had already gone past the physical stage - which really isn't all that shocking or out of character. You have a bunch of very attractive 20-somethings, forced to hang out together for various reasons. I'd be surprised if they haven't all shacked up with one another at some point or another.

  11. #86
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Gambit and CeCe being off panel best friends is a tad silly, but nothing compared other 'forced' interactions, from the 'underground mating urges' to the stupid rogento crap, so meh... *shrugs*
    Best friends? They hang out once a week. This is the equivalent of two guys grabbing a few beers and watching the football game on a friday night. I hang out with this guy from work all the time because we are the only two people from the Bahamas in the London Office of our company. Previously, when we were in the Bahamas, we did not hang out much at all. In terms of how this is written, this is no more than two people with a common past (X-men versus being from the Bahamas) who are apparently live relatively close to each other in a new city (new for Gambit) and thus they have decided to hang out every friday. Doesn't make them best friends.

  12. #87
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Sonic View Post
    The foot massage and flirtatious back-and-forth; 'you so bad, cajun,' left me with the impression that their relationship had already gone past the physical stage - which really isn't all that shocking or out of character. You have a bunch of very attractive 20-somethings, forced to hang out together for various reasons. I'd be surprised if they haven't all shacked up with one another at some point or another.
    Nah, I still got the vibe they haven't crossed that bridge yet. I flirt with my female friends all the time whether we are platonic or hooking up. If anything this is more like his relationship with an adult Storm where they have flirted with each other plenty of times before even sharing a naked kiss (well Storm was naked anyway) but ultimately it was strictly platonic between Storm and Gambit. Until further notice that seems to be what she is going for here with Gambit and frankly if Gambit is going to be hooking up with girls in his solo, it is probably the best thing for Gambit and Cece. Storm has been no fun since she got married so let Cece but that female he just chills with, flirts with, they have each others back but ultimately they remain platonic.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Storm has been no fun since she got married so let Cece but that female he just chills with, flirts with, they have each others back but ultimately they remain platonic.
    But you say they aren't best friends so why would they have each other's back? More circling each other hints at sometype of attraction so no I do not think she's shown them "circling each other". I don't and haven't seen any reason beyond hey guy/girl they must be circling each other. You may think two people talking once about why she miss-judged him would then lead to them hanging out alot but I don't. I've had tons of conversations that clarified things with people I've meet now and then or once worked with and no we are not now suddenly hang out alot. You are hanging out with the person in your office because of both isolation and shared background. Gambit has mult-apartments in NY. I find it hard to believe that Gambit hasn't hung out in NY some long prior to the X-Men.

    I really don't have an issue with CeCe basically becoming a Storm like friend to Gambit since Storm is otherwise tied up but its basically already happened off-panel and from a story standpoint, its been poorly done.

  14. #89
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    But you say they aren't best friends so why would they have each other's back? More circling each other hints at sometype of attraction so no I do not think she's shown them "circling each other". I don't and haven't seen any reason beyond hey guy/girl they must be circling each other. You may think two people talking once about why she miss-judged him would then lead to them hanging out alot but I don't. I've had tons of conversations that clarified things with people I've meet now and then or once worked with and no we are not now suddenly hang out alot. You are hanging out with the person in your office because of both isolation and shared background. Gambit has mult-apartments in NY. I find it hard to believe that Gambit hasn't hung out in NY some long prior to the X-Men.

    I really don't have an issue with CeCe basically becoming a Storm like friend to Gambit since Storm is otherwise tied up but its basically already happened off-panel and from a story standpoint, its been poorly done.
    I didn't realise you have to be best friends to have someone's back. I am a grown ass man. I don't really have best friends but there are plenty of friends I hang out with that if shit went down I would have their back and they would mine.

    If Liu said Gambit and Cece would be sleeping with each other and then you saw them in bed after having sex, you could not claim they were not sleeping with each other. You could certainly opine on whether you believed their sleeping together was protrayed well but that is a different argument to whether Liu was correct when she said they would be sleeping together. Likewise, Liu said they would be circling each other and we have seen them hanging out and flirting which is my definition of circling. Again, your comments are more to the quality and quantity of that circling but it is simply incorrect to pretend she has not shown them circuling each other.

    Yes you can have a conversation and not hang out and you can have a conversation and end up hanging out. Both happen and my point is if I see the conversation and then see them hanging out I would not say well that friendship is poorly developed. I would simply assume whatever clarifying they did to each other simply led to them connecting.

    And you miss my point about hanging out. Cece lives in the city. Gambit lives in the city now. Cece hates being around the X-men. Gambit as his solo makes perfectly clear likes to enjoy himself outside of his role as an X-man teacher. In NY, it just so happens that Cece is one of the few people in the city who can relate to his wanting a life outside the X-men because it is exactly what she wants. So guess what just like the person in the office and myself, Cece and Gambit are isolated and have a shared background. What other mutants with ties to the X-men have a stated interest in a life outside of being X-men and actually live in NY?

    Just like Liu is developing Kyle and Northstar presumably in advance of their wedding, she can easily develop Cece and Gambit if ultimately she wants to focus on that relationship because it is not that far along. They have hung out with no indication they have even shared a kiss and with no indication that it is anything more than two people spending some time together because they have no other friends who they can relate to on this level in NY. So no it hasn't happened off panel because we don't know yet how serious this is of a friendship or potential romance. My guess is if it becomes serious from a friendship or romance standpoint then Liu will build up to it. It is simply not important to the story she wants to tell right now.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 01:43 PM.

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