Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 08:47 AM.
I agree about a romance needs more development than a friendship but I actually expect some for both and both of them gave me next to nothing as far as I''m concerned.I assume once Liu gets around to telling the story she will expand on that but seeing as the focus was Northstar she probably didn't want to use up the panel time and for the time being just noted they have been hanging out in a plantoic way and will build on it when the story dictates. That is prefectly reasonable and bears no resemblance to Rogneto where Carey had Rogue sleeping with Mags 37 minutes after Gambit poured out his heart to her and 7 minutes after Mags finished his Nazi story. There simply is a different level of development required when you are talking about friends versus lovers.
Gambit and CeCe being off panel best friends is a tad silly, but nothing compared other 'forced' interactions, from the 'underground mating urges' to the stupid rogento crap, so meh... *shrugs*
As you note, the age thing is just the tip of the iceburg of what would be wrong with it. Gambit was her mentor, someone who she came to trust as being there for her best interests as she was trying to deal with her issues/grow up - essentially an adult/older/person of power/trust/control over her in a way, a parent or surogate parent/doctor/teacher. There is complete emotional imbalance. To exploit that is the height of scumminess - see examples of Magneto and Rogue's relationship in the AoA or Emma's "laughable attempts" at being a therapist over the years both pre and post villainess periods.Even if they were the same age, she's still super emotionally screwed up and it still would be kinda creepy. but they aren't the same age and the story doesn't take place in europe.
People are taking the relationship all wrong. No one ever said they were "best friends". They are just two people in a big city who know each other, have some common background and wanted to get away from the X-Men life for a bit. That's all. They're flirtation we're seeing now is new and it seems just fine to me. They don't have some huge off-panel back story besides maybe one or two dinners that were established in X-23 (and they probs just went to the Hot dog cart or something). Before that, they had some moments back when CeCe first joined up with the team. Why people are acting like Liu is showing them getting engaged or something is beyond me.
I really like Gambit, and I really like Cece - but I've wanted Cece to hook up with Iceman ever since their days together during the Operation Zero Tolerance arc. I know that ship probably sailed a long time ago, but that arc seriously just made them work so well together.
There is not a lot of speculation involved. Cece clearly acted surprised that Gambit would help. Gambit clearly responded by saying he was not the person the rumors/gossip made him out to be. He also made a point of emphasizing not being a womaniser. If I saw two people in real life have that exchange and then two weeks later I see them watching a movie together, would I be shocked? Of course not because I would simply assume that two attractive people acquainted with each other but not knowing a whole lot about each other simply decided to find out more about each other. There is nothing odd about it at all. The only part that was really speculation was why I thought Gambit was nervous.
And Cece would believe the rumous when she barely knew him because that is what the majority of humans do. This is a guy who other X-men (ie heros) have likely bad mouthed and who from her perspective betrayed the X-men a few times. She would have no idea about why Gambit became Death or that he was secretly helping the X-men during MC when he was a Marauder so why wouldn't she believe it when other X-man said he was bad news. Again, in real life if my good friends are telling me someone is a douche then up until I meet that person and they prove those friends wrong (by saving people when they have nothing to gain), I would naturally trust my friends opinion and assume that person is a douche. That is perfectly normal human behavior.
And by normal life I mean one outside of being defined as an X-men and mutant. Gambit is a thief. There are a lot of thieves in the normal world. There is no comparison to Wolverine because Wolverine may want to live a normal life but he is so wrapped up in his whole school and kill so others don't have to philosophy that he does not actively try to live a normal life. Gambit does because he occassionally goes off and does what is a fairly normal occurence in real life. He steals shit.
When Liu wants to explore that relationship further she will but there is no need to go into all the details when it is still at the we hang out on Fridays stage. Imagine if Cece were a guy. Liu would have to change very little in the story because it would just be a guy who hated being an X-man realising oh hey Gambit isn't a dick like I heard, we have a common history as X-men, he lives in the city and then next we see they hang out on Fridays drinking bears and playing pool. Would people be like why are these two friends?
Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 12:48 PM.
The foot massage and flirtatious back-and-forth; 'you so bad, cajun,' left me with the impression that their relationship had already gone past the physical stage - which really isn't all that shocking or out of character. You have a bunch of very attractive 20-somethings, forced to hang out together for various reasons. I'd be surprised if they haven't all shacked up with one another at some point or another.
Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 01:06 PM.
I really don't have an issue with CeCe basically becoming a Storm like friend to Gambit since Storm is otherwise tied up but its basically already happened off-panel and from a story standpoint, its been poorly done.
If Liu said Gambit and Cece would be sleeping with each other and then you saw them in bed after having sex, you could not claim they were not sleeping with each other. You could certainly opine on whether you believed their sleeping together was protrayed well but that is a different argument to whether Liu was correct when she said they would be sleeping together. Likewise, Liu said they would be circling each other and we have seen them hanging out and flirting which is my definition of circling. Again, your comments are more to the quality and quantity of that circling but it is simply incorrect to pretend she has not shown them circuling each other.
Yes you can have a conversation and not hang out and you can have a conversation and end up hanging out. Both happen and my point is if I see the conversation and then see them hanging out I would not say well that friendship is poorly developed. I would simply assume whatever clarifying they did to each other simply led to them connecting.
And you miss my point about hanging out. Cece lives in the city. Gambit lives in the city now. Cece hates being around the X-men. Gambit as his solo makes perfectly clear likes to enjoy himself outside of his role as an X-man teacher. In NY, it just so happens that Cece is one of the few people in the city who can relate to his wanting a life outside the X-men because it is exactly what she wants. So guess what just like the person in the office and myself, Cece and Gambit are isolated and have a shared background. What other mutants with ties to the X-men have a stated interest in a life outside of being X-men and actually live in NY?
Just like Liu is developing Kyle and Northstar presumably in advance of their wedding, she can easily develop Cece and Gambit if ultimately she wants to focus on that relationship because it is not that far along. They have hung out with no indication they have even shared a kiss and with no indication that it is anything more than two people spending some time together because they have no other friends who they can relate to on this level in NY. So no it hasn't happened off panel because we don't know yet how serious this is of a friendship or potential romance. My guess is if it becomes serious from a friendship or romance standpoint then Liu will build up to it. It is simply not important to the story she wants to tell right now.
Last edited by remydat; 05-02-2012 at 02:43 PM.