Gambit and Cecelia

[Moonshine]

Liu said Gambit and Cece would be circling each other and that is just what she has shown. .

No she hasn't. Liu jumped whole hog into the circling without ever developing why they'd even be friends. So far between the Kyle whinin, his and Northstar's over sappy relationship, the insta-friendship of Gambit and CeCe, I am horribly under-impressed with her ability to show or develop relationships in a comic. She managed to do so with X-23 and Jubilee the best and X-23 and Gambit by default that Gambit fans already knew of his childhood and his desire to help kids like himself (young Storm). Her decent use of Gambit outside in fights where he wasn't wallpaper is the only thing that saved x-23 for me.

I'm not hating Astonishing but there is nothing in it and that includes the Gambit and CeCe "friendship" that impresses me in how its been portrayed or developed so far and she's had time so I'm not all expecting anything great in the future. Good yes, great, no.

[Scottiesays]

No she hasn't. Liu jumped whole hog into the circling without ever developing why they'd even be friends. So far between the Kyle whinin, his and Northstar's over sappy relationship, the insta-friendship of Gambit and CeCe, I am horribly under-impressed with her ability to show or develop relationships in a comic. She managed to do so with X-23 and Jubilee the best and X-23 and Gambit by default that Gambit fans already knew of his childhood and his desire to help kids like himself (young Storm). Her decent use of Gambit outside in fights where he wasn't wallpaper is the only thing that saved x-23 for me.
.

Eh, i don't really see your problem with Gambit/CeCe. They saw each other (on panel) a few times with and without x-23, and then Gambit invited her to live in his spare room because he was barely living their anyway, that's it, what's their to overanalyse, just a couple of people that kinda know each other.

[Moonshine]

Eh, i don't really see your problem with Gambit/CeCe. They saw each other (on panel) a few times with and without x-23, and then Gambit invited her to live in his spare room because he was barely living their anyway, that's it, what's their to overanalyse, just a couple of people that kinda know each other.

They helped each other in one fight on panel after meeting her for a doctor's visit. That is the extent of their on panel seeing each other until Astoniishing. Now in Astonishiing , you missed the part where they've suddenly been spending dinner every Friday night together for over a month with no on-panel reason except for a hint at some "date" in X-23 where it was never established when, with who or why it happened.

If Liu had skipped the dinners part and had Gambit just being at the hospital to offer help once and then had him show her his place to offer the spare room after her griping then I'd agree with you. However, she's definitely rushed them into being good friends who suddenly are spending a set time with each other. Nothing annoys me more in comics than poorly developed character interactions where we are suppose to be emotionally impressed when there is no story build up for us to be.

[Dr. Sonic]

They helped each other in one fight on panel after meeting her for a doctor's visit. That is the extent of their on panel seeing each other until Astoniishing. Now in Astonishiing , you missed the part where they've suddenly been spending dinner every Friday night together for over a month with no on-panel reason except for a hint at some "date" in X-23 where it was never established when, with who or why it happened.
If Liu had skipped the dinners part and had Gambit just being at the hospital to offer help once and then had him show her his place to offer the spare room after her griping then I'd agree with you. However, she's definitely rushed them into being good friends who suddenly are spending a set time with each other. Nothing annoys me more in comics than poorly developed character interactions where we are suppose to be emotionally impressed when there is no story build up for us to be.

I believe that Liu was building off of a pre-established rapport and flirtation between the two dating back to Cece's brief tenure with the X-Men.

[Scottiesays]

They helped each other in one fight on panel after meeting her for a doctor's visit. That is the extent of their on panel seeing each other until Astoniishing. Now in Astonishiing , you missed the part where they've suddenly been spending dinner every Friday night together for over a month with no on-panel reason except for a hint at some "date" in X-23 where it was never established when, with who or why it happened.

If Liu had skipped the dinners part and had Gambit just being at the hospital to offer help once and then had him show her his place to offer the spare room after her griping then I'd agree with you. However, she's definitely rushed them into being good friends who suddenly are spending a set time with each other. Nothing annoys me more in comics than poorly developed character interactions where we are suppose to be emotionally impressed when there is no story build up for us to be.

So they went out together a few times off panel. Dosen't change were they are now in Astonishing, they are still at the flirty/banter stage of what they were like in X-23. Liu seemed to hint that Wolverine has had a few drinks with Gambit, do we need to see that?

We haven't missed any development between the two as they are essentially in the same place from the end of X-23 to Astonishing. The difference being he invited her to live in a spare room in a flat he dosen't live in, which i'd expect him to invite any member of the X-men to live in, especially one that healed him. I don't see anywhere that it's mentioned their "good freinds", but i might be wrong.

I believe that Liu was building off of a pre-established rapport and flirtation between the two dating back to Cece's brief tenure with the X-Men.

Yep their pretty much acting the same as they were 10 or so years ago.

[Canemacar]

Given that Gambit hasn't spoken more than two words to any X-men besides Rogue in a main book for the last decade, I really don't mind Liu establishing a new friendship with Cece without showing every time they had coffee.

It's not like she's pulling a Carey and having all their heartfelt conversations, recriminations, tender moments, and bonding time occur off-panel. What we're seeing now *is* the start of their relationship; all we haven't seen is the "can i stand to be in the same room with you?" stage of getting to know each other.

[f4faith]

Given that Gambit hasn't spoken more than two words to any X-men besides Rogue in a main book for the last decade, I really don't mind Liu establishing a new friendship with Cece without showing every time they had coffee..

They haven't just met for coffee though. They've been meeting for dinner EVERY Friday night for sometime now supposedly. I don't know how that isn't described as "good friends" by now and yes, done completely off panel. It is not the "start" of the relationship. They are well past the start. I agree she moved right over that to get them to where they are at the beginning of Astonishing. I don't reserve every one of my Friday nights for some mild aquaintance/ex-team member. So I agree that is a lot of bonding time written off panel. We've see Gambit and Wolverine out drinking plenty of times before (dating all the way back to Gambit's early appearances in Wolverine's book) for that not to be an issue.

Certainly its not as poorly as Carey did since in Legacy there was way too much history to have let that all go and be off-panel, but I can certainly see how someone can make the point that Liu has wisked over some time/effort to jump Gambit and Cecilia to a new place in whatever relationship/banter they have now (they do seem more friends than two people attracted to one another) from where they met once in X-23 and certainly well past what they had 10 years ago.

That said I agree that Gambit would have offered his spare room to any of the X-Men if they needed it so that had nothing to do with whom he was offering it.

[Canemacar]

Bottom line; he's interacting with someone who isn't Rogue. No matter what, it's a good thing in my book.

Does it have to be an official marriage before Mephistopheles will take it?

[Neko]

Bottom line; he's interacting with someone who isn't Rogue. No matter what, it's a good thing in my book.

Exactly. Give me Gambit talking to and interacting with the other Xmen any day. Seriously, he should never have been portrayed as never having any friendships or relationships beyond Rogue in the books, yet that is what has happened. Rogue should not be the center of his universe nor does she deserve to be. He needs to be shown on his own.

As for the Cece/Gambit stuff. I don't care that it was written in a way to move the plot to a point Liu wanted. TBH - so what - allot of it happened off panel, she actually put dialogue in to show that it took place unlike another writer. If Carey can get the "excuse", so can anyone else. And sometimes you need to build on the friendship to move it forward, and I'm find with that.

It is time to see Gambit interact with other characters.

[Moonshine]

It is time to see Gambit interact with other characters.

Where did I say anything about his not interacting with other characters? I'm thrilled that he's supposedly going to get to talk to Wolverine, Iceman, CeCe, etc in Astonishing and hopefully the character interaction will be developed more and better than we have seen so far. I hope he gets to interact with Rachel, Mimic, and Cannonball and get some friends in Legacy.

Don't try to confuse the two ideas. Not interacting with other characters vs a poorly developed interaction. I didn't excuse Carey for it so I'm not going to excuse Liu.

[Hi-Fi]

Gambit and Cecilia have nothing in common. Pretty obvious case of a writer picking two characters she likes and putting them together just because. And she doesn't even try to build it, she just mentions off-panel dates to justify the relationship. Liu's run is very fan-fic-ish, in the BAD way.

[Scottiesays]

Gambit and Cecilia have nothing in common. Pretty obvious case of a writer picking two characters she likes and putting them together just because. And she doesn't even try to build it, she just mentions off-panel dates to justify the relationship. Liu's run is very fan-fic-ish, in the BAD way.

Not the first time i've seen a Rogue fan (probably just a coincidence) talk about the fan fic thing in relation to Liu, what else is their that is fan-ficcy because i've not noticed anything yet, genuinely curious.

[Canemacar]

Gambit and Cecilia have nothing in common. Pretty obvious case of a writer picking two characters she likes and putting them together just because. And she doesn't even try to build it, she just mentions off-panel dates to justify the relationship. Liu's run is very fan-fic-ish, in the BAD way.

I kind of like their "opposites attract" thing. She's a no-nonsense, down to earth person that just wants to do her job as a doctor and he's a devil may care thief, superhero, and adrenaline junkie. I could see her getting off work from the hospital, expecting a quiet night at home watching a movie, only for Gambit to stand her up because he's busy stealing some hi-tech doodad from a race of invading aliens or something.

Wouldn't want them in anything serious, but it's cute for what it is.

[remydat]

No she hasn't. Liu jumped whole hog into the circling without ever developing why they'd even be friends. So far between the Kyle whinin, his and Northstar's over sappy relationship, the insta-friendship of Gambit and CeCe, I am horribly under-impressed with her ability to show or develop relationships in a comic. She managed to do so with X-23 and Jubilee the best and X-23 and Gambit by default that Gambit fans already knew of his childhood and his desire to help kids like himself (young Storm). Her decent use of Gambit outside in fights where he wasn't wallpaper is the only thing that saved x-23 for me.

I'm not hating Astonishing but there is nothing in it and that includes the Gambit and CeCe "friendship" that impresses me in how its been portrayed or developed so far and she's had time so I'm not all expecting anything great in the future. Good yes, great, no.

Did you read my post? I said Liu said they would be circling each other. I nor Liu ever said she would be going into extreme detail developing why they would be circuling each other just that they would. However to answer your question, Liu already laid the groundwork for their friendship in X-23. Cece knew Gambit as being an X-man and a dubious one at that. She saw him help civilians not as part of some X-man mission but just because they needed help. It is not unlike how she wants to help people not as an X-man but simply as a doctor. That made Gambit someone she may now want to actually get to know. Gambit by contrast has been alienated from the X-men in large part so when Cece seemed willing to accept his response that there was more to him than the rumors, it made her someone he felt he could legitimately develop a friendship with. It also explains why he was nervous on their presumed date. Initially most Gambit fans were like why would Gambit be nervous about a date. But Gambit made clear he expected to be home early and I read his nervousness more as not because he was trying to get into her pants but that he was attempting to strike up a friendship for the first time in forever and thus felt nervous about it.

I assume once Liu gets around to telling the story she will expand on that but seeing as the focus was Northstar she probably didn't want to use up the panel time and for the time being just noted they have been hanging out in a plantoic way and will build on it when the story dictates. That is prefectly reasonable and bears no resemblance to Rogneto where Carey had Rogue sleeping with Mags 37 minutes after Gambit poured out his heart to her and 7 minutes after Mags finished his Nazi story. There simply is a different level of development required when you are talking about friends versus lovers.

[dr.maikel]

Would you rather Gambit were screwing X-23?

Yes.., the age different is only a thing in hypocritical America and comics get sold in Europe as well were no one would care.,
If they were the same age everyone would look past that and see that they would work fine as a couple.,