Was Jean Grey a Real Character or a Clone?/X-Factor a retrospective

**darknessatnoon** · 05-10-2012, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by KurtW95

Spider-Man beat Thanos.

Spider-Man beat Firelord, kid.

Not Thanos. Maybe it was Black Panther. Did Black Panther ever arm-wrestle Thanos and win?

**Havok83** · 05-10-2012, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Henry T.

How is Jean unusable with the Phoenix, but Hope isn't?

Hope is way more overpowered than Jean has ever been. Hope has access to all mutant powers and can subtly mind control mutants. She is also an expert in weapons use and hand to hand combat. And on top of that she is getting the Phoenix Force.

Hope is not overpowered. Without the PF, she is actually pretty regular.

**KurtW95** · 05-10-2012, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by darknessatnoon

Spider-Man beat Firelord, kid.

Not Thanos. Maybe it was Black Panther. Did Black Panther ever arm-wrestle Thanos and win?

It wasn't in 616. It was in Marvel Adventures: Infinity Gauntlet. So I guess that doesn't count.

**darknessatnoon** · 05-10-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by KurtW95

It wasn't in 616. It was in Marvel Adventures: Infinity Gauntlet. So I guess that doesn't count.

lol, counts for me! I have to track it down.

**Phoenix Egg** · 05-10-2012, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Havok83

Hope is not overpowered. Without the PF, she is actually pretty regular.

But she does have the Phoenix.

Or rather, she can use it even though she doesn't have it (stupid, but whatever).

Point is that the overpowered argument is indefensible given Magneto and Storm, let alone out and out would-be unbeatables like Bobby.

Case in point:

Xorn killed the Phoenix. Effortlessly.

**The_Greatest_Username** · 05-10-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg

This makes me sad.

Jean Grey is gonna lose her abilities just because girls can't be powerful.

Jean doesn't need cosmic power to be powerful. If anything it'll show that a girl doesn't need a cosmic-crutch to be powerful.

**ExodusCloak** · 06-05-2012, 01:03 PM

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...22290231639269

Q:What do you think of the treatment of Madelyne Pryor? I thought what Cyclops and Jean did her in early X-Factor was horrible. Like one of the most horrible things that could be done to someone.

TB: But it all worked out because she turned out to be a horrible demon queen. Yeah, that was maybe not Marvel's finest hour.