fate of female bat family members

[RohanRiderX]

So the women of the bat clan have been, shall we say less then respected with the reboot. Huntress has been killed and replaced which as been discussed elsewhere,Batgirl well i wont get into. barbara has been retconned heavily and steph and cass have been "benched" with no hope in site it being specific to females it seems odd to me that they took the hit for the batman mythos yet none of the robins did.

Do you guys think this was intentional maybe someone at dc thought "little girls dont read comics" so the hacked away all the females in the family save for oddly the two red heads.

[ArnoldoAAD]

So the women of the bat clan have been, shall we say less then respected with the reboot. Huntress has been killed and replaced which as been discussed elsewhere,Batgirl well i wont get into. barbara has been retconned heavily and steph and cass have been "benched" with no hope in site it being specific to females it seems odd to me that they took the hit for the batman mythos yet none of the robins did.

Do you guys think this was intentional maybe someone at dc thought "little girls dont read comics" so the hacked away all the females in the family save for oddly the two red heads.

not to mention thatBatwoman barely have anything to do with Batman

i guess Morrison is kind of right and the gayness of the batman concept ust attracts other men while the women fail to accomplish that for the same reason

or maybe is just pure coincidence

[Ed Sizzers]

not to mention thatBatwoman barely have anything to do with Batman

To be honest, I consider that a plus.

With regards to the other characters, I guess it's open to debate (a lot of debate usually!) if Barbara Gordon is better off now than before Flashpoint.

The Huntress situation is weird, in that it's as though DC/Levitz specifically went out of their way to make it worse than it needed to be. Whilst some fans weren't happy that Helena W was going to the the Huntress, (once the true nature of World's Finest was received), I think most people did understand that it worked for the nature of the story. However, it's hard to look at the unneccesary off-screen 'killing off' of Bertinelli (and the manner/symbolism of the reveal on the first page of WF#1) as anything other than rubbing salt in the wound to her fans.

Cass and Steph's treatment obviously hurts the most. None of the justification/excuses we've heard for not using them make any sense against the fact that all the former Robins are still active and their backstories (apparently) remain largely intact.

[JaggedFel]

IMO, DC Plays favorites and some characters like Cass Cain, Steph, Wally West, Donna, Connor Hawke, etc got shafted some of this because they wanted a younger DC Universe some of it because they don't like certain characters.

[ArnoldoAAD]

To be honest, I consider that a plus.

With regards to the other characters, I guess it's open to debate (a lot of debate usually!) if Barbara Gordon is better off now than before Flashpoint.

The Huntress situation is weird, in that it's as though DC/Levitz specifically went out of their way to make it worse than it needed to be. Whilst some fans weren't happy that Helena W was going to the the Huntress, (once the true nature of World's Finest was received), I think most people did understand that it worked for the nature of the story. However, it's hard to look at the unneccesary off-screen 'killing off' of Bertinelli (and the manner/symbolism of the reveal on the first page of WF#1) as anything other than rubbing salt in the wound to her fans.

Cass and Steph's treatment obviously hurts the most. None of the justification/excuses we've heard for not using them make any sense against the fact that all the former Robins are still active and their backstories (apparently) remain largely intact.

i think is very obvious that Levitz started writing Huntress as Bertinelli and suddenly someone at DC told him to make the change
but the change alone is complely uncalled for
i dont even like what was done with powergirl on mr terrific, she was unlikable so who thought this was a good idea

but being fair we will have to wait until the actual comic comes to judge fairly

the treatment of Cass and Steph i think is something to be judged separately
Cass was used before the relaunch very nicely in both Red Robin and Gates of Gotham and then it just stop
it feels like she was finally getting back into business after a pretty long hiatus and then suddenly she goes back to hiatus again
its unjustifiable just to make take less attention from barb

the thing with Steph is more comprehensible, she doesnt have an easy continuity so relaunching her again as batgirl might had been a problem(a lesser of a problem than what is happening with current bg but thats my opinion)

[Godlike13]

I think DC thought "character X isn't drawing enough readers" so they decided to change things and streamline focus on the ones they thought will draw more. I really don't know why people keep bring up the Robins. All the Robins present and past decently draw, which is why they are all still around.

[RohanRiderX]

I think DC thought "character X isn't drawing enough readers" so they decided change things and streamline focus on the ones they thought will draw more. I really don't know why people keep bring up the Robins. All the Robins decently draw, which is why they are all still around.

ya know what god, your right. they are a better draw then the females, But it just seems odd that its a female only thing. the boys lost nothing, where as the girls lost EVERTHING hell tim even got to keep his old costume.

[The_Greatest_Username]

I think DC is just waiting to reintegrate Cass and Steph into the DCnU. I mean they JUST relauchned everything, so they're not going to want to throw everything right back out there. I'm not too happy about some characters being sidelined (namely Wally and Donna), but I can see why it would be necessary. For now at least, somewhere down the road I'm hoping to start seeing more familiar faces again.

[batGRRRl4ever]

Oh I'm sorry, but the bat-ladies have never been doing better. Batwoman is back (albeit a different character) after 30 yrs in her first ongoing solo title, Batgirl (the first and most recognizable) is back after a 22+yr siderail in her first ongoing solo title, Huntress is getting a duo book which is an upgrade from being a support player in BOP, Catwoman has another title again, Zatanna and Black Canary are both in team books, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are both parts of team books rather than just infrequently reoccuring villians, that's doing pretty darn good for the female bat related gender, period.

This is just a thinly veiled "I'm ticked two characters I liked got benched to make way for new versions of stories and also for DC to try to make more $$$ by reusing other existing properties" threads, because the steph & cass appreciation threads are currently just going in circles at the moment. The bat-ladies are BETTER than fine right now. Have patience, jeez I had to wait 22+YRS for my Batgirl's return, a lousy year is nothing as I'm all but certain Cass will be back in Batman, Inc. Steph however realistically, I feel for fans, may be placed in the unused Donna & Wally pile for the foreseeable future.

[Aprillis]

Oh I'm sorry, but the bat-ladies have never been doing better. Batwoman is back (albeit a different character) after 30 yrs in her first ongoing solo title, Batgirl (the first and most recognizable) is back after a 22+yr siderail in her first ongoing solo title, Huntress is getting a duo book which is an upgrade from being a support player in BOP, Catwoman has another title again, Zatanna and Black Canary are both in team books, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are both parts of team books rather than just infrequently reoccuring villians, that's doing pretty darn good for the female bat related gender, period.

This is just a thinly veiled "I'm ticked two characters I liked got benched to make way for new versions of stories and also for DC to try to make more $$$ by reusing other existing properties" threads, because the steph & cass appreciation threads are currently just going in circles at the moment. The bat-ladies are BETTER than fine right now. Have patience, jeez I had to wait 22+YRS for my Batgirl's return, a lousy year is nothing as I'm all but certain Cass will be back in Batman, Inc. Steph however realistically, I feel for fans, may be placed in the unused Donna & Wally pile for the foreseeable future.

Huh. I can't believe this but I'm agreeing with batGRRRl4ever here. I'm actually okay with Cass and Steph being benched for the time being. They'll get reintroduced sooner or later (even if we have to wait some years...), after DC have built up essential details of the new universe, and hopefully with good writers too. At least they're not at risk of writers butchering their characterizations (like Tim).

But! I'm still upset about Helena Bertinelli's fate. I loved her character, and to substitute her for Helena Wayne seems like a really cheap trick to me.

[shark]

Let's see. Babs has been de-aged and is less experienced than before, back to being a Distaff Counterpart of Batman, her relationships with - mostly woman - have been erased and the team she lead apparently never existed. Bertinelli was killed off screen. Steph has been benched and probably won't appear anytime soon and I doubt her development will be kept intact. Cass is apparently going to appear in Inc - but until I see the page, I'm not believeing it. The Court of Owls was the perfect moment to introduce her. Batwing is going to China and is teaming with... Nightwing of all people, another lost opportunity.

To be honest, I consider that a plus.

So do I. If she was more connected to Batman and her solo hadn't been planned before the reboot, I bet she would be gone too.

[Fate's Faith]

Oh I'm sorry, but the bat-ladies have never been doing better. Batwoman is back (albeit a different character) after 30 yrs in her first ongoing solo title, Batgirl (the first and most recognizable) is back after a 22+yr siderail in her first ongoing solo title, Huntress is getting a duo book which is an upgrade from being a support player in BOP, Catwoman has another title again, Zatanna and Black Canary are both in team books, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are both parts of team books rather than just infrequently reoccuring villians, that's doing pretty darn good for the female bat related gender, period.

This is just a thinly veiled "I'm ticked two characters I liked got benched to make way for new versions of stories and also for DC to try to make more $$$ by reusing other existing properties" threads, because the steph & cass appreciation threads are currently just going in circles at the moment. The bat-ladies are BETTER than fine right now. Have patience, jeez I had to wait 22+YRS for my Batgirl's return, a lousy year is nothing as I'm all but certain Cass will be back in Batman, Inc. Steph however realistically, I feel for fans, may be placed in the unused Donna & Wally pile for the foreseeable future.

I also agree. Bascially there seems to be a rule. Don't take someone elses identity because in a few years the original will want it back. Cass and Steph were always... always in danger of being kicked to the curb as long as Barbara was there. Mainly due to she's the easiest to explain. And mainly due to the fact she never let go of the name. I wasn't reading but even I have seen covers that reminded people that while Barbara was Oracle, she was first Batgirl. You don't see that with Nightwing. They acknowledge it in stories but Batgirl has always been portrayed as Barbara's true identity and the Oracle one of circumstance not choice. By design, she operates as a background character. Cass perhaps has a chance to be reimagined with the upcoming Batman Inc which is where I would expect to see her. They could regress Stephanie like they have everyone else. Maybe if Tim doesn't get a solo soon, she become one of the characters Batman encounters. Or the Titans. Or update her father's identity wth her in the role. But if its about Cass and Steph in the role of Batgirl then yeah, that shouldn't happen... again.

[Mr. Holmes]

i guess Morrison is kind of right and the gayness of the batman concept ust attracts other men while the women fail to accomplish that for the same reason

or maybe is just pure coincidence

I said the exact same thing, although it was more tongue in cheek. But thinking about it, I think the idea that the females in the Batman family are expendable, and only Alfred, Robins, etc. are the stable ones sort of only supports what Morrison said.

[Brack360]

Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, and Helena Bertinelli are out of the picture altogether. Selina Kyle, Barbara Gordon, and Dinah Lance are still in the spotlight but have all undergone a serious regression in character, making them far weaker- and, at least for the first two, virtually unrecognizable- characters from the versions before the reboot. Only Kate Kane was remained unscathed.

Yet Damian is still around, despite him seriously aging Bruce Wayne and going against the New 52 reason d'etre of de-aging the super-heroes. I guess that must be because he's so integral to what Morrison is doing. Jason Todd's also still here and he's one character I wish would just stay dead and never be mentioned again.

[americanwonder]

Male-led comics outsell female-led comics. This is not unique to Batman, and it's not unique to DC. That's the market.

So, yes, titles/characters that were selling well pre-boot, had less reason to shake things up; they were already successful. Even good ol' Supes got regressed. And there are lots of Robins because Robins outsell Batgirls.

As others have said, we still have Batwoman, Batgirl, Catwoman, Birds of Prey, World's Finest - the Bat-ladies aren't doing too bad for themselves. Last time I checked, Marvel, the market leader, doesn't have as many female-led comics as the Bat-ladies.