Axel Alonso on Continuity "fixes"

[Spider-Dragon]

Its not on me to show you the body, you are the one claiming that the baby could have still been alive. Its on you to back that up.

Okay...then it's not on you to show me the body...it's on Marvel to show the body. They are the ones claiming that baby May died without showing the body to confirm it.

ASM #441 has mj confirm it died inside her and was thus stillborn. Thats all I need to move on.

If it's enough for you to move on then that's fine. Me...I believe anyone can be fooled and that's exactly what was done to Mary Jane. She was manipulated to believe that baby May was dead.

Could they bring her back if they wanted to... sure.... its a comic: "No body, no confirmed death" is meaningless because we have heroes where we had the confirmed body and they still come back.

No body basically proves that the character never died to begin with. I don't accept the death of April Parker from the Spider-Girl comic either because there was no body to confirm it.

If she re-appeared in a comic everyone would just accept the fact that she didn't die to begin with because a body was never found. As a result her return from supposed death wouldn't even need to be explained...and if OMD never happened and baby May suddenly made an appearance in a comic her supposed return from the dead wouldn't have to be explained either because there was no body confirming her death.

It's a lot easier for a writer to bring a character back from the dead if there is no body. No explanation is necessary because with no body found the character never died to begin with.

[ShaggyB]

No body basically proves that the character never died to begin with......

It's a lot easier for a writer to bring a character back from the dead if there is no body. No explanation is necessary because with no body found the character never died to begin with.

Again thats faulty logic in this day and age. Bucky was shown to die during Fear Itself. He managed to survive even though he was confirmed dead. A body does not = dead.

Its best to agree to disagree because youve yet to show anything that would confirm shes still alive. Marvel choosing not to show you a stillborn baby in ASM back in the 90s is not proof that there wasnt one.... its proof that Marvel has limits of what it finds to be in good taste. Show me something that confirms she could still be alive. Ive showed you what confirms her dead. Sure MJ could be wrong, thats what MC2 was based on. But where is the evidence that hints that she is wrong in the 616 continuity?

[Spider-Dragon]

Again thats faulty logic in this day and age. Bucky was shown to die during Fear Itself. He managed to survive even though he was confirmed dead. A body does not = dead.

Its best to agree to disagree because youve yet to show anything that would confirm shes still alive. Marvel choosing not to show you a stillborn baby in ASM back in the 90s is not proof that there wasnt one.... its proof that Marvel has limits of what it finds to be in good taste. Show me something that confirms she could still be alive. Ive showed you what confirms her dead. Sure MJ could be wrong, thats what MC2 was based on. But where is the evidence that hints that she is wrong in the 616 continuity?

Fine, we can agree to disagress.

However...I just have one question left for you to answer...


If OMD never happened and baby May appeared in a comic alive and well with no explanation as to how she returned from the dead, would you need an explanation for that return or would you be able to simply accept it as I would since a body was never shown to confirm her death?

[ShaggyB]

Fine, we can agree to disagress.

However...I just have one question left for you to answer...


If OMD never happened and baby May appeared in a comic alive and well with no explanation as to how she returned from the dead, would you need an explanation for that return or would you be able to simply accept it as I would since a body was never shown to confirm her death?

considering OMD... Id want confirmation of what exactly happened in clone saga first. We have JQ saying no pregnancy happened.... but clone saga is kind of stuck with that as a central part to it.... So id want that explained first before i could even begin to tell you how id react to baby may being suddenly alive.

[Spider-Dragon]

considering OMD... Id want confirmation of what exactly happened in clone saga first. We have JQ saying no pregnancy happened....but clone saga is kind of stuck with that as a central part to it....So id want that explained first before i could even begin to tell you how id react to baby may being suddenly alive.

Why do you need to confirm anything about OMD when my question is a what if question that omits the existence of OMD?


Could you accept the return of baby May from the dead without any explanation due to having been shown no body to confirm her death if OMD never happened?

[ShaggyB]

Why do you need to confirm anything about OMD when my question is a what if question that omits the existence of OMD?


Could you accept the return of baby May from the dead without any explanation due to having been shown no body to confirm her death if OMD never happened?

It's a simple "yes" or "no" question.

Why would it matter since OMD did happen? Why do I need to play what if.... we have a "what if" where Baby May wasnt really stillborn. Anything can happen in what if scenarios / issues. Why would I not be able to accept it in a what if scenario? Id accept it in what ifs... id want it explained in 616.

[Spider-Dragon]

Why would it matter since OMD did happen?

Because the answer causes me to win this debate and you know it.


You would accept baby May's return from the dead with no explanation due to the fact that her dead body was never revealed.

[ShaggyB]

Because the answer causes me to win this debate and you know it.

How so? Very confused how you think you can win something when all the evidence points at your position being wrong.

Youve been shown confirmation that MJ felt the baby die. Youve read the comic where peter goes to the directed place to find the baby and finds aunt may instead. Youve likely seen the cat on the boat.... Youve backed into a corner demanding a dead baby body when you know that even a dead body on panel doesnt mean a hero / villain is dead. Like I said before you cant win this one because the evidence is against you and your desired proof is never going to exist. Best to agree to disagree and let it go at that.

[Spider-Dragon]

How so? Very confused how you think you can win something when all the evidence points at your position being wrong.

Knock it off! We both know that you'd accept the return of baby May from the dead with no explanation due to the fact that her dead body was never revealed.

Why are you playing this game for?

[StoneGold]

It doesn't matter what people don't want to see. If Marvel wants to go the route of saying that baby May died then they should've shown her body, otherwise she isn't confirmed to be dead.

Every comicbook death that has ever happened without a body being seen has always turned out to be revealed that the character never died to begin with.

Two examples come to mind...

Elektra and Domino.

Red She-Hulk claimed to have killed both of them off panel and there were no bodies shown to prove that she killed them, and it was later revealed that she never killed them to begin with.

I want to see a comic page showing the dead body of baby May, and until I do I will never accept that she died, and as a result from my perspective OMD erased a living baby May from existence.

So, unless someone can provide the evidence I stated I suggest we just say that I won this debate and leave it at that.

Steve Rogers
Nick Fury
Red Skull
Tony Stark
Norman Osborn
Kraven
Jean Grey
Colossus


Bodies on all of them. All of them came back. Whereas Uncle Ben, no body. No resurrection.

Which is only to say, the rule you are trying to say is true, isn't. I'm not trying to create a rule. The rule is it's all fictional, they can do whatever the hell they want.

[StoneGold]

Knock it off! We both know that you'd accept the return of baby May from the dead with no explanation due to the fact that her dead body was never revealed.

Why are you playing this game for?

Because everyone thinks like you, and if they say they don't, they're lying?

[Spider-Dragon]

Steve Rogers
Nick Fury
Red Skull
Tony Stark
Norman Osborn
Kraven
Jean Grey
Colossus


Bodies on all of them. All of them came back. Whereas Uncle Ben, no body. No resurrection.

Which is only to say, the rule you are trying to say is true, isn't. I'm not trying to create a rule. The rule is it's all fictional, they can do whatever the hell they want.

It's much easier for a writer to explain the return of a supposely dead character if there is no revealed body than for there to be a revealed body.

If OMD never happened and baby May was suddenly revealed to be alive and well I wouldn't need an explanation for her return from the dead because I never saw a body to confirm her death.

Baby May's fate was left ambiguous, she was never confirmed to be dead because there was no body.

What was confirmed was that Osborn had Mary Jane manipulated to believe baby May was dead and then kidnapped her while already having aunt May in his custody. Aunt May was returned...baby May wasn't.

Up until OMD baby May was alive and well somewhere...which means OMD erased a living baby May from existence.

That's how I see it based on the provided information from the comics.

[ShaggyB]

Knock it off! We both know that you'd accept the return of baby May from the dead with no explanation due to the fact that her dead body was never revealed.

Wait we know that? When did that get established?

Why are you playing this game for?

And who's playing games? You are the one asking for Marvel to show you a body or else shes still alive. The same Marvel who showed you aunt may die'n in issue #400 and then brought her back from the grave anyway (wasnt even here but a genetically identical actress). The same Marvel that showed you bucky die'n in Fear Itself, from his perspective no less, and yet still brought him back.... the same Marvel who cloned peter multiple times in one of the craziest stories ever and yet you still want them to show you a stillborn child before you will accept the evidence that they have given you for her being stillborn....

Do you not see how strange that is? Do you think you would really accept a dead baby if it was shown to you right after the story about clones? Again, its a pointless argument. You've decided to only be satisfied by something that would be incredibly insensitive of Marvel to actually show. Because of that youve decided that all the evidence they did give you is meaningless and are going to demand a body anyway. On top of that, its a body form a company that's proven in the past (in the same book no less) that a dead body doesnt stop them from bringing a character back to life if they wanted to. Like I said, its best to agree to disagree because your position lacks evidence and is demanding proof that isnt really proof given the track record of those providing the proof.

[ShaggyB]

It's much easier for a writer to explain the return of a supposely dead character if there is no revealed body than for there to be a revealed body.

If OMD never happened and baby May was suddenly revealed to be alive and well I wouldn't need an explanation for her return from the dead because I never saw a body to confirm her death.

Baby May's fate was left ambiguous, she was never confirmed to be dead because there was no body.

What was confirmed was that Osborn had Mary Jane manipulated to believe baby May was dead and then kidnapped her while already having aunt May in his custody. Aunt May was returned...baby May wasn't.

Up until OMD baby May was alive and well somewhere...which means OMD erased a living baby May from existence.

That's how I see it based on the provided information from the comics.

For someone who is saying they want positive ID proof on a corpse, you sure are accepting quite a bit of unseen / fill in what happened scenes to get baby may to kidnapped. We are actually never shown what happens to baby may's body. We are shown Alison leaving with a big hospital laundry basket on wheels, but never whats in it. Then we are shown Alison meeting Osborn on the docks holding something "precious" that's small in her arms, but its shadowed. We are later shown Alison putting toys in a baby crib, but no baby. Then its revealed Alison had a cat that likes to play with baby rattles named precious.

Again, for someone asking for proof positive, you really arent shown positive proof of baby kidnapping and then you are shown on panel that what you though had happened, hadn't occurred at all.

[Spider-Dragon]

For someone who is saying they want positive ID proof on a corpse, you sure are accepting quite a bit of unseen / fill in what happened scenes to get baby may to kidnapped. We are actually never shown what happens to baby may's body. We are shown Alison leaving with a big hospital laundry basket on wheels, but never whats in it. Then we are shown Alison meeting Osborn on the docks holding something "precious" that's small in her arms, but its shadowed. We are later shown Alison putting toys in a baby crib, but no baby. Then its revealed Alison had a cat that likes to play with baby rattles named precious.

Again, for someone asking for proof positive, you really arent shown positive proof of baby kidnapping and then you are shown on panel that what you though had happened, hadn't occurred at all.

Whatever...if you and others want to be lead by Marvel's leash go ahead. But, I'm not going to follow the rest of the crowd that you're obviously in and fall for it. Baby May didn't die until OMD where she was erased from existence. Nuff' said.