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  1. #46
    Elder Member CMBMOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sparky View Post
    But Stark got his memory wiped, so people forgive him. I don't buy it for an instant. Then they had him and Cap and Thor get wrapped up in Thor's problems where the three came to terms with what had happened and all was well. Not a chance. Later on, Cap is shown as still not trusting Stark and Tony had to (and did) hand over information to Cap detailing how to disable his armor should he ever get out of control again. And then when The Hood started collecting infinity gems, Cap started showing his distrust of Tony again because there were supposed to be no more secrets... but they Illuminati guys kept the secret of where they hid the infinity gems after they had collected them. The real problem with the Tony Stark mindwipe excuse, however, is that regardless that he doesn't remember what he did during Civil War, his memory is what it was right up to shortly before Civil War... so there's no reason to expect Tony would do anything any differently now than he did the first time around because Tony believed he was right... and when he gets all self-righteous, he stands behind his "I'm a futurist" nonsense and does whatever he wants to do anyway. Sure, he has the benefit of knowing what occurred as a result of his actions even if he doesn't remember doing those things, but that just means he could decide to look for the flaws in his old plans and close them up if he ever decided to work against the other heroes again.

    Maria Hill... there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever have trusted her. She's a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent and does not like super heroes. When she was in charge of S.H.I.E.L.D., she overheard information about House of M and decided that S.H.I.E.L.D. must know whatever the heroes knew... so she disabled Spider-Man and Vision who were working with S.H.I.E.L.D. in the middle of a different crisis, unmasked Spider-Man and then had telepaths scan his mind as well as search through the Vision's hard drives for information. Whether or not she had the right to do these things isn't the point. She's a government stooge first and heroes be damned if they're in her way of getting information. I think she was also in charge when the Cape-Killer technology was developed for S.H.I.E.L.D., and when the SHRA was still being discussed, she met with Captain America to get intel about which of his friends would side with the government and how easy it would be to take down the rest... when Cap refused to cooperate, still before the law went into effect, she order S.H.I.E.L.D. troops to attack him and treated him like an anti-registration criminal. Why would any hero trust her? Hell, even when Cap took over as top cop of America, I see no reason that he would want her around... sure, don't kick her out of S.H.I.E.L.D. because she was following orders and she's still useful to the agency... but why keep her in a high profile position? Why not relegate her to a desk job that has nothing to do with super hero activity? For that matter, why did he trust Victoria Hand at all? Okay, give her a second chance after having worked for Osborn during Dark Reign, but to put her into a position where she could have an effect if she were to betray? I'm beginning to suspect that Captain America might have suffered some brain damage when he was allegedly killed.

    The anti-registration heroes who banded together could probably trust one another to this day... they had each others' backs when things were bad. Now that things seem to have reached a status quo, there's just no reason to believe people aren't going to hold grudges. Not the kind where they'll go out of their way to kick each others' asses, but there should be cold shoulders and nasty attitudes between faked pleasantries. Its all retarded, and if Marvel didn't want years of friendships ruined by Civil War, maybe they should have worked a little harder at making the event itself work better... or have resolved the events leading up to, during, and after a lot differently.
    One of the main reasons I current DISLIKE Matt Fraction's Iron Man arc, was because of the mindwipe idea and how he had Tony not LEARNED A DANG THING AT ALL AFTER ALL WAS SAID AND DONE.

    Which makes Tony a true one of a kind JERK and Fraction a hack of a writer.

  2. #47
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    Since when did any of them think it was good she got raped Kids on the web this is what we call talking out of your ass.


    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  3. #48
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMBMOOL View Post
    One of the main reasons I current DISLIKE Matt Fraction's Iron Man arc, was because of the mindwipe idea and how he had Tony not LEARNED A DANG THING AT ALL AFTER ALL WAS SAID AND DONE.

    Which makes Tony a true one of a kind JERK and Fraction a hack of a writer.
    It is really funny that many fans who bought that have trouble with Shaw using the same excuse.
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  4. #49
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus ex Chris View Post
    And? Rogue ripped Carol's identity right out of her body, and then threw her off the Golden Gate Bridge.
    that is one of the few realistic relationships in all of the MU. People stay angry at people who have hurt and betrayed them
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post


    They're not mean. Just idiots.
    I'm a bumblebee. I'm a bee and I need to get back to the hive.

  6. #51
    The curious one.
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    The recap of Carol's rape is given here.

    http://carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/index.html

    This is what happens though, a writer messes things up and another writer has to step in later and try to fix it. Look at the work that had be done on Tigra once Bendis was through with her.

    Mark_S
    Last edited by Mark_S; 04-28-2012 at 07:09 PM.

  7. #52
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    Only a man could have written this.

    Mark_S
    Only a single man could have written this without paying for it.
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  8. #53
    Junior Member ironbyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    the combatant soldier after WWII pretty much took decades to really achieve any friendship, some still hold the hate to this day, political leaders with no blood in the game were a bit faster. How long will it be before Norway forgives Quisling or until calling someone Benedict Arnold is not a insult in the US?
    decades in real life = some issues in comics....
    Excuse me for my bad english , i've self learning it (i'm Italian)


    MARVEL : Captain Marvel , Iron Man , New Avengers , Scarlet spider

  9. #54
    I say thee nay! icctrombone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    Well Hal was possessed. But not everyone is happy with everyone else. Julia Carpenter hates Carol and with good reason. I think Luke still thinks of Tony as a bad guy. I'm not sure about Jen and Tony but if anyone should hold a grudge against him it's her. But I don't think that the marvel writers think of friendship the same way the rest of us do.

    At the very least anyone who was captured by Cape Killers and spent time in 42 should have a bitter anger if not hatred of Tony and Reed.

    Mark_S

    Applying realism means that people forgive each other too. Forgiveness helps the person forgiving more than it does the person who's being forgiven. In real life holding grudges leads to bitterness and all kinds of health problems.
    Life is what you make it.

  10. #55
    I say thee nay! icctrombone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Yes but if you notice the Church itself spent a long time trying to make sure the "forgiven" guy stayed in jail. that was a political and religious necessity for the Pope'
    Just because someone is forgiven it doesn't mean that they don't have to pay the consequences. Hal Jordan was still reviled by many after the Parallax free pass.
    Life is what you make it.

  11. #56
    Wallace Likes It That Way Deus ex Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    that is one of the few realistic relationships in all of the MU. People stay angry at people who have hurt and betrayed them
    Agreed, for once.

  12. #57
    The curious one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by icctrombone View Post
    Applying realism means that people forgive each other too. Forgiveness helps the person forgiving more than it does the person who's being forgiven. In real life holding grudges leads to bitterness and all kinds of health problems.
    It could, it could also lead to some interesting stories. The resolution or non-resolution of anger is a great hallmark of fiction that the marvel writers are for the most part ignoring. Marvel tries to have it both ways, telling us that their heroes are real people yet ignoring the fact that real people have real emotions.

    Mark_S

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