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  1. #46
    Senior Member Corey W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarl View Post
    That is entirely true.

    Sorcerer Supereme Strange against Illyana on her home turf would be a good fight, pretty even, home turf advantage for Illyana compensating for Stranges greater experience and marginally greater knowledge (Stranges judgement of relative knowledges).

    Not-Sorcerer Supereme Strange without the Vishanti backing and deprived against one of the magical artifacts he relied on against another Superme on her home turf -with her soulsword artifact that is specialized for magical combat- definitly makes Strange the underdog. I'd still think he couls win, it is indeed what he does if it was a clever win.

    It just won't be. Itll be like Namor vs. Thing. Or magneto vs. Iron Man. I mean, there is a pattern to these things, the Avengers are beating far more powerful X-men in the X-emns special element. (Magnetism/Water/Limbo)
    It is a good observation that so far the fights have been set up so that the X-Men should have the obvious advantage (i.e. Namor fighting under water; Illyana taking on Strange in Limbo; Magneto fighting a guy who usually wears a metal suit; Cyke sucker-blasting Cap). I wonder if that will switch as the event goes on.
    Last edited by Corey W; 04-28-2012 at 09:04 PM.

  2. #47
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Actually, he was trading punches with those guys, not knocking them down. BIG difference. Orka was taken down after the Black Knight softened him up. Iron Clad took Cage down the first time they clashed (albeit with the help of the other U-Foes) and the second time, while Cage did seem to knock him down temporarily, the U-Foes were under orders of the Master to let him give a good showing in front of his teammates, and ultimately, IC and the rest of the gang were double-crossed and taken out by a device of the Master. Since Orka has had a significant power down since those days of Roxxon, knocking down all Avengers with a punch and going toe to toe with Thor, and Iron Clad was never shown to be AS strong as the Thing, even when he was still considered a 60 tonner (Ben has also gone up, and I'd rate Iron Clad at 50 ton), I'll have to disagree. I can totally see a tough onery guy like 25 tonner Luke go up against someone twice as strong as him, but Namor is, at the very least, three times as strong, probably more. That's a lot. The only power difference in those H4H days is that Luke described himself as having 300 pounds of solid musle and diamond hard skin. Today, he's back to having steel hard skin (not sure about his weight, though. He seems slimmer. Maybe he lost some.). I wonder which makes him a badder ass?

    Peace
    I believe Orka is class 100 in water, and 90 ton outside of water. He's pretty comparable to Namor in terms of flat out raw power. Orka went toe to toe with Hulk in Busieks Defenders book, so I don't think he's that much powered down if at all. That was actually a draw (maybe Hulk won in the end but the fight continued off panel).

    Iron Clad I believe is 60.

    And he also fought Wonder Man. Didn't win and wasn't as strong... but he went toe to toe with him.

    My personal view is that at the time he came off to me at least above 25 tons. I'd even put him past 40 at the time.

  3. #48
    Former Lurker Old Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Can a soul sword be blocked without magic
    Regardless of whether or not it can, if Cap is blocking it I wouldn't be surprised in the least since his shield got a mystical Uru metal upgrade after it was shattered in Fear Itself. Before it was a virtually unbreakable adamantium/vibranium alloy that could resist nearly anything. Now its an adamantium/vibranium alloy enhanced by the same metal Thor's hammer is made of, put back together by the same dwarves who forged Mjolnir. At this point, nothing short of the Infinity Gauntlet should be able to affect it. Of course, the next big event they want to show off how powerful a bad guy is, it'll still break like glass.

  4. #49
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sparky View Post
    Regardless of whether or not it can, if Cap is blocking it I wouldn't be surprised in the least since his shield got a mystical Uru metal upgrade after it was shattered in Fear Itself. Before it was a virtually unbreakable adamantium/vibranium alloy that could resist nearly anything. Now its an adamantium/vibranium alloy enhanced by the same metal Thor's hammer is made of, put back together by the same dwarves who forged Mjolnir. At this point, nothing short of the Infinity Gauntlet should be able to affect it. Of course, the next big event they want to show off how powerful a bad guy is, it'll still break like glass.
    As far as I remmeber the Soulsword for the old New Mutants, it only cuts magical beings and objects, as well as shatter any spell. It does not affect nonmagical people and objects at all. (That was a plot point once, Illyana pretended to kill someone by plunging the Soulsword deep into his chest. Didn't hurt him at all)

    Ironically, the Uru upgrade may be the only thing the Sword has a chance of touching.

    Someone pointed out that this seems to be more about establishing the team that Marvel has the movie rights to as superior to the one it doesn't have rights to. Which explains why Avengers in defiance of all logic can take on X-men in their element of strength and win. If so, I suspect it is a short-sighted strategy, the X-men have been big sellers for Marvel for 30 years.

    I wouldn't mind a clever win by Strange, guile, experince and treachery beating youth and power. But I suspect we're going to get a stupid win.

  6. #51
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    Regarding her sword being blocked by Cap's shield, the soulsword has had many creative liberties taken with it from writer to writer.
    I believe the likely assumption, currently, is that her soulsword can take on physical properties when needed, but its primary purpose is still that of magical anathema -- disrupting magical spells and/or their casters.
    This, of course, is all speculation and has yet to be provided in-story verification.

    I'm in favor of Cap's shield having some kind of magical element to it, however, to continue the previous soulsword intent.
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  7. #52
    Former Lurker Old Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarl View Post
    I wouldn't mind a clever win by Strange, guile, experince and treachery beating youth and power. But I suspect we're going to get a stupid win.
    Strange should win against Magik. As has been pointed out a number of times, he's foiled hell-lords like Mephisto and Dormammu for quite some time, and some of that was before he was upgraded to Sorcerer Supreme. He's got experience and power... and she is new (compared to Dormi and Mephi). Still, I suspect you are correct. After all, we got a stupid premise of a story, a stupid beginning to the combat, some pretty stupid match-ups (Spidey vs. Colossonaut, Iron Man vs Magneto), and I'm sure we'll get an utterly stupid ending. Why shouldn't any individual combat, victory, or other piece of the story be just as stupid?

  8. #53
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    Regarding her sword being blocked by Cap's shield, the soulsword has had many creative liberties taken with it from writer to writer.
    I believe the likely assumption, currently, is that her soulsword can take on physical properties when needed, but its primary purpose is still that of magical anathema -- disrupting magical spells and/or their casters.
    This, of course, is all speculation and has yet to be provided in-story verification.

    I'm in favor of Cap's shield having some kind of magical element to it, however, to continue the previous soulsword intent.
    Your right about cap shield because it was remade out the same material as Thor hammer. After it was destroyed doing Fear Itself.
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  9. #54
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    I suspect the fight broke off early. They probably felt the Phoenix manifest, said "Oh, %^$!", and ran back to see everyone had been charbroiled.

    We'll know tomorrow.

  10. #55
    Magick is Everywhere NightMage's Avatar
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    Default Memo to Marvel: NEW DR. STRANGE SERIES, STAT!

    Quote Originally Posted by ROM_Reborn View Post
    THIS, is exactly what I thought whilst reading the comic, and even more so browsing the X-boards about the match up. The general consensus is that Strange is a dead man, and doesnt stand a chance against her in Limbo. I know shes powerful, especially in Limbo, but Strange has taken on much stronger, darker, forces and come out on top. And as far as Hell Lords are concerned, Magik is an infant compared to the likes Dormammu, Mephisto, etc. Give her a few more centuries of undisputed reign in her dimension, and then maybe, she might be experienced enough to pose a legitimate threat to Dr. Strange.

    If this was written in a Dr. Strange book, he would not only have stolen her Soul Sword, but probably would have sealed her away as a prisoner in her own dimension. Maybe with an assist from Wong, Damien Hellstrom, and/or Clea.
    ....God I so damn want a Doctor Strange on-going. C'MON MARVEL! STOP SCREWING WITH US and give us a Dr. Strange on-going!!!!!!!!

  11. #56
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    Well, interesting. Looks like I was very wrong here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sparky View Post
    Strange should win against Magik. As has been pointed out a number of times, he's foiled hell-lords like Mephisto and Dormammu for quite some time, and some of that was before he was upgraded to Sorcerer Supreme. He's got experience and power... and she is new (compared to Dormi and Mephi). Still, I suspect you are correct. After all, we got a stupid premise of a story, a stupid beginning to the combat, some pretty stupid match-ups (Spidey vs. Colossonaut, Iron Man vs Magneto), and I'm sure we'll get an utterly stupid ending. Why shouldn't any individual combat, victory, or other piece of the story be just as stupid?
    It may be that Strange is feeling the effects of being on a team and taking orders. As far as I remember, his victories over hell-lords such as Dormammu and Mephisto involved smarts and guile. In fact, a lot of the guile involved avoiding getting himself into the position Cap ordered him into: A direct violent confrontation with a hell-lord on her home territory, while considerably weakened himself.

    EDIT: Stranges possible internal monologue:

    Ok, Illyana Rasputin. Not to worry, while I am at a disadvantage in power currently, I can use any one of a hundred strategies I've used before to avoid a direct confrontation on her terms, or I can make up an entirely new way to engage her at my advantage...

    CAP: STRANGE! Get in there and take her on in Limbo!

    Strange: Well crap.
    Last edited by Gnarl; 05-02-2012 at 12:02 PM.

  12. #57
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarl View Post
    It may be that Strange is feeling the effects of being on a team and taking orders. As far as I remember, his victories over hell-lords such as Dormammu and Mephisto involved smarts and guile. In fact, a lot of the guile involved avoiding getting himself into the position Cap ordered him into: A direct violent confrontation with a hell-lord on her home territory, while considerably weakened himself.
    You remember correctly. He was almost always at a disadvantage in terms of power. Dormammu could have swatted him like a fly, but he preferred to play with his food. Strange's wins came from being clever and using what he had on hand.

    I just hope Magik had to work for her win.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    Yana... what issue? need to obtain...

  14. #59
    Shazam! Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkostus View Post
    Yana... what issue? need to obtain...
    I think that's Uncanny X-Men vol.1, #191.

  15. #60
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    A reenactment of the Strange vs. Magik duel in Limbo, brought to you by the good people from Legend of the Seeker.

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