Defend a hated game.

[Guest_1001]

Well, FF9 had a world map. I kind of miss the world maps, actually.

Anyway, on-topic, I'd like to defend Mortal Kombat Armageddon. There was plenty to enjoy in being able to play as characters who hadn't been playable in the series before, or never in the MK5-7 trilogy. Even though the create-a-fatality feature could've used unique moves for certain characters (other than certain characters having swords and others not), it was always a fun challenge to see how far you could take it. My brother got TWELVE moves in a row. There wasn't even a ranking that high. Konquest was a fun addition, if repetitive, the air combos were enjoyable and satisfying and I even quite liked the endings (which, for those who've never played it, was just a narrator saying a few lines while the character you completed the game with did martial arts in the background. It was ridiculously simplistic but, frankly, fighting game endings haven't been that great since Tekken 3). I could've done without the Motor Kombat -- a karting mini-game where you seemingly won or lost depending on the difficulty and NOTHING else -- and the character creator was really bad. But on the whole, I liked the game a lot. I don't think I've ever had quite such a good time playing a fighting game as when me and my brother had a Reptile vs Sub-Zero best of seven series on the Falling Cliffs stage. I won.

[jesse_custer]

... How was the gameplay "really bad"?

Drawing slows the fighting down considerably. The Summons are also embarrassingly slow and screwed up. FFVIII is a snail compared to FFIV. That's unacceptable for a post-SNES turn-based RPG.

Isn't that the same as every FF heroine? Aeris got kidnapped, ran off her own, then died. Rinoa went after Edea on her own, went into a coma later on and very briefly got kidnapped after she woke up. Yuna was probably the most successful, only being kidnapped once for a forced marriage.

Behaviour-wise, Rinoa was hardly the worst of the bunch either. Every single hero is a complete douchebag for one thing. I don't want this thread to be hijacked by Final Fantasy talk though, so I'll leave it at that.

The Final Fantasy heroes were not always so douchebaggy. Even the arrogant ones like Edgar had a sensitive side.

And how is someone like Locke, Shadow, or Cyan a douchebag?

[Michael P]

So, you never figured out the end-run around the Draw system, did you?

[jesse_custer]

So, you never figured out the end-run around the Draw system, did you?

Nope. Because I had zero fun playing it, I quit VIII after a few hours.

Mystic Quest was better than VIII.

Which leads me into my defense of Mystic Quest. As repetitive as it is (you can't avoid ANY enemies), the game's challenging mazes and light-hearted tone make it playable and enjoyable.

[BlackagarBoltagon]

I love me some FF8! I thought that game was great, though I liked all the PS1 FFs quite a lot.

[Guest_1001]

Drawing slows the fighting down considerably. The Summons are also embarrassingly slow and screwed up. FFVIII is a snail compared to FFIV. That's unacceptable for a post-SNES turn-based RPG.

A) You don't have to draw, B) you can turn the battle speed up in the Config, raise your Speed stat with the Junction system and cast Haste AND you mention below that you only played it for a few hours, C) it was the same speed as the other FF games (except IX, which was like a particularly lazy sloth) and D) the Summons were slow because of the Boost ability.

And even with all that, I can't see how it qualifies as being "really bad".

The Final Fantasy heroes were not always so douchebaggy. Even the arrogant ones like Edgar had a sensitive side.

And how is someone like Locke, Shadow, or Cyan a douchebag?

Well Locke was a lesser version of the same archetype Zidane, Tidus (especially Tidus) and Vaan did. He was slightly arrogant. Around the same level as FFXIII's Snow but much less than the other three.

Cloud, Squall and Lightning are firmly in the other archetype; standoffish douchebags.

Nope. Because I had zero fun playing it, I quit VIII after a few hours.

... You played it for a few hours and you think you're qualified to comment on the gameplay?

[jesse_custer]

Cloud, Squall and Lightning are firmly in the other archetype; standoffish douchebags.

Sure, I agree. But I don't think it's a stretch to say there's more character variety in the earlier games - and better characters overall.

... You played it for a few hours and you think you're qualified to comment on the gameplay?

Yep. Why keep playing something that you don't enjoy? I had already played lots and lots of RPGs when I first picked up VIII - everything from the first Final Fantasy to Super Mario RPG to Parasite Eve to Fallout 2. VIII easily ranks among the worst RPG experiences I've had, and what I define as bad gameplay, bad storytelling, and bad characterization doesn't grow on me. I actually gave VIII several chances (at least five), and every time it sucked. The only Final Fantasy I spent less time with was X, another all-time stinker.

[Alex]

Nope. Because I had zero fun playing it, I quit VIII after a few hours.

Mystic Quest was better than VIII.

Which leads me into my defense of Mystic Quest. As repetitive as it is (you can't avoid ANY enemies), the game's challenging mazes and light-hearted tone make it playable and enjoyable.

I actually liked mystic quest because i played it the way it was ment to be played.
As a beginners rpg for people who weren't really familar with rpgs.
It was quick, it was simply, it looked...charming, and it made you want more. Exactly what it was designed to do.

[Guest_1001]

Sure, I agree. But I don't think it's a stretch to say there's more character variety in the earlier games - and better characters overall.

Yeah, I agree with that. I found myself getting less annoyed by the characters in FFVI, at least.

Yep. Why keep playing something that you don't enjoy? I had already played lots and lots of RPGs when I first picked up VIII - everything from the first Final Fantasy to Super Mario RPG to Parasite Eve to Fallout 2. VIII easily ranks among the worst RPG experiences I've had, and what I define as bad gameplay, bad storytelling, and bad characterization doesn't grow on me. I actually gave VIII several chances (at least five), and every time it sucked. The only Final Fantasy I spent less time with was X, another all-time stinker.

I agreed with you above but I find this unfathomable. I'm not sure where to begin. You've only played it for a few hours ... but you also think it's fair for you to be the judge of its storytelling? I'm fine with that if you'd given up on, say, late disc two or three but in the first few hours? Good Lord, the story doesn't even get started until the end of Timber, when Seifer is taken away by Edea. It's plausible you could reach there in a few hours ... but long enough to judge the storytelling? Not really. Long enough to judge the gameplay? Not really either. By then, you're still using weak spells, using weak cards and not doing any sidequests. Unless the few hours you sampled came later in the game, I'm puzzled as to how you could have the grasp of the gameplay you think you do. And the judgement of the story would leave me completely baffled.

And Final Fantasy X is my favourite FF game, as it happens. Second best mini-game ever, best battle system (with five-digit HP and attacks), best spells, best effects, best summons and ... uh, the worst characters. But whatever, can't win 'em all.

[Alex]

And Final Fantasy X is my favourite FF game, as it happens. Second best mini-game ever, best battle system (with five-digit HP and attacks), best spells, best effects, best summons and ... uh, the worst characters. But whatever, can't win 'em all.

X had the best battle system.
...
That is everything i liked about it.

[Yun Lao]

And how is someone like Locke, Shadow, or Cyan a douchebag?

Although not a complete douchebag, Shadow did practically ditched me in the middle of a fight in Zozo.

As for the debate of characters in X, I have but one word: Auron.

[carabas]

And Final Fantasy X is my favourite FF game, as it happens. Second best mini-game ever, best battle system (with five-digit HP and attacks), best spells, best effects, best summons and ... uh, the worst characters. But whatever, can't win 'em all.

It would be my favourite FF game if nopt for the blasted Dark Aeons. Makes the game borderline unplayable to me.

[Alex]

Although not a complete douchebag, Shadow did practically ditched me in the middle of a fight in Zozo.

As for the debate of characters in X, I have but one word: Auron.

Yes, the badass who carried a wine jug for some reason was cool.
Also, robots are cool.

[Guest_1001]

It would be my favourite FF game if nopt for the blasted Dark Aeons. Makes the game borderline unplayable to me.

How? I mean, I suppose I felt the same way when I tried to return to Besaid for the first time and got annihilated by Dark Valefor but at the same time, we're getting extra stuff for free. The only tough end-game bosses the US version had were the original creations in the monster arena. I couldn't be happier that I got to face them and actually think they're some of the best things in the game because of how difficult they are.

[carabas]

How? I mean, I suppose I felt the same way when I tried to return to Besaid for the first time and got annihilated by Dark Valefor but at the same time, we're getting extra stuff for free. The only tough end-game bosses the US version had were the original creations in the monster arena. I couldn't be happier that I got to face them and actually think they're some of the best things in the game because of how difficult they are.

They're too tough for my taste. And they respawn. Making going back to get all the Infinity +1 weapons not at all a fun passtime.