Why Hope is Bishop's only hope for redemption

[xgeek52]

*reaches for aspirin*

[Meehl]

I thought it was a batshit Gambit as the Witness that told him about Hope. The Witness/Gambit probably lied to him as payback for pre-MC Bishop thinking he was the X-traitor. No better way to fuck with someone who thinks you are a traitor by manipulating him into become the biggest traitor of them all.

Not just Witness/Gambit, but also someone whom I thought was Storm but others have thought was Monet. Also, you've also clearly never read the Bishop mini, The Last X-man.

[remydat]

Except that Bishop has always been understood to have come from an alternative universe, Earth 1191. This has never been disputed. Whether or not there was ever going to be a 616 Bishop has never been revealed.

Yes but in theory, if 1191 Bishop went back in time to kill Hope because in the 1191 timeline she killed a shitload of people, if his doing so results in 1191 Hope avoiding killing those people then you would say one of two things happens. Either the 1191 reality changes resulting in the 1191 Bishop no longer being the Genocidal Maniac but then another reality is created lets call it 1192 in which Hope does kill those millions and thus the original 1191 Bishop now comes from the 1192 alternate reality.

The other option is to simply say that the 1191 reality doesn't change ie in that reality Hope does kill those millions but instead a new reality 1193 is created in which Hope does not kill those millions and the result is the 1193 Bishop is not a Genocidal Maniac.

Either way, my point is an alternate reality has to be created (according to the many worlds theory) in order to account for the different outcomes.

[fortyseven]

Bishop doesn't know what really happened. He can't even read. He only heard "tales" from his batshit grandmother.

He does gets points for knowing that Psylocke is historically insignificant.

[remydat]

Not just Witness/Gambit, but also someone whom I thought was Storm but others have thought was Monet. Also, you've also clearly never read the Bishop mini, The Last X-man.

Read it a long time ago but it is one of the few comics I lost my originals. And yes I know others told him besides the Witness. I was being facetious in suggesting this was some big fuck you by Gambit to get back at Bishop for hating on him when he first came to the past.

[xhx23x]

His grandmother is the real villain of the piece IMO

This is pretty much my opinion as well. Grams screwed the kids up.

Layla Miller knows exactly what will happen and, when, but is quietly biding her time with X-Factor. When Hope screws up, she'll intervene before Bishop's future can come into effect. And so she saves reality all over again, just as she did during House of M.

That doesn't really seem likely. If anything Layla needs for Bishop's future to happen in order to ensure a bunch of other things happen too.

[.A²]

That doesn't really seem likely. If anything Layla needs for Bishop's future to happen in order to ensure a bunch of other things happen too.

Not necessarily. She knows what comes before, she doesn't need to know what happens after.

[remydat]

Layla Miller knows exactly what will happen and, when, but is quietly biding her time with X-Factor. When Hope screws up, she'll intervene before Bishop's future can come into effect. And so she saves reality all over again, just as she did during House of M.

Layla Miller is a construct. I do not believe in her.

[.A²]

Layla Miller is a construct. I do not believe in her.

She's as much of a construct as any other fictional character in an imagined universe, and whether you like it or not, she's the only person around in present-day 616 with 5 years worth of first-hand 1191 experience, not to mention the testimonial of Scott Summers for the 50+ years worth of history leading to the events she experienced herself.

[mikekerrIII]

Did you hear that noise? That was my head exploding trying to comprehend the above post.

Sadly I understood it, too much real SF is bad for your mental health.

[mikekerrIII]

The ends don't justify the means. What Bishop did was wrong and will always be wrong. I am simply pointing out that if Hope does not kill those millions of people then the Bishop that did all those WRONG THINGS ceases to exist. That is a basic time travel paradox and has nothing to do with justifying Bishop's actions. It was pointing out the irony that the only way for Bishop to be redeemed is for Hope to avoid doing the thing that resulted in nutcase Bishop.

That would not redeem Bishop, I don't think that anything can redeem the cold blooded murder of 9 Billion people

[darknessatnoon]

Remember, all Layla's information is second-hand (even if it's from her self).

[mikekerrIII]

No I am saying in this reality if Hope doesn't kill those millions then the Bishop of the 616 never becomes the Genocidal Bishop because he does not grow up in the world that gave birth to Genocidal Bishop. The Genocidal Bishop stuck at the end of time or wherever the hell he is presumably will still exist because the many worlds theory suggests that every decision creates an alternate universe so the Genocidal Bishop simply becomes the Bishop from an alternate universe in which Hope does kill those millions but is not the Bishop from the 616.

that is not the way that Time travel in the MU has ever worked

[.A²]

Remember, all Layla's information is second-hand (even if it's from her self).

Apart from the 5 years of the Summers Rebellion that she participated in herself, yes, but her source is Scott.

[Meehl]

Yes but in theory, if 1191 Bishop went back in time to kill Hope because in the 1191 timeline she killed a shitload of people, if his doing so results in 1191 Hope avoiding killing those people then you would say one of two things happens. Either the 1191 reality changes resulting in the 1191 Bishop no longer being the Genocidal Maniac but then another reality is created lets call it 1192 in which Hope does kill those millions and thus the original 1191 Bishop now comes from the 1192 alternate reality.

The other option is to simply say that the 1191 reality doesn't change ie in that reality Hope does kill those millions but instead a new reality 1193 is created in which Hope does not kill those millions and the result is the 1193 Bishop is not a Genocidal Maniac.

Either way, my point is an alternate reality has to be created (according to the many worlds theory) in order to account for the different outcomes.

No, I believe that only the Phoenix Force can make an alt universe no longer exist. What Bishop did was not only a failure from a plan and execution point of view (because Hope lives), but it was also a failure from a philosophical point of view. Killing Hope doesn't cause 1191 to disappear, and nothing we have seen in the Marvel U would suggest that it would.