Why Hope is Bishop's only hope for redemption

[remydat]

So we all know the story. Hope allegedly kills millions of people resulting in Bishop growing up with a shitty M tatoo and wanting to kill the bitch. He then tries to off her as an infant fails in the most embarassing of ways and then kills billions in his attempt to kill her. For many, this completely ruined the character and there seemingly is no Hope for redemption. Or is there.

In responding to a post in another thread, It dawned on me that Hope is in fact Bishop's best hope for redemption. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Hope did in fact kill those millions of people. The whole premise the X-men are working of is that because that future hasn't happened Hope has a chance to avoid killing those millions. If she does then Bishop would have been proven wrong and would have killed those 9 billion people in vain.

Yet if Hope can avoid killing millions either by being killed or simply by being good then Bishop never grows up in the concentration camps and hence he never has a reason to try and kill Hope and then never goes into the future and kills 9 billion people. In effect the Bishop that killed 9 billion people ceases to exist because the circumstances (Hope killing millions) that precipitated his going nuts never occurs.

Now the complication here is if you subscribe to the the theory that Bishop did kill those 9 billion people on the basis of the many worlds theory ie every decision you make creates an alternate reality. However, if that is the case then that also means that in one such reality Hope did in fact kill those millions of people. So you either have to accept that Hope and Bishop are murderous bastards or that Hope and Bishop equally can change/avoid what they appear to have done.

Of course, Bishop could just be an idiot and been mistaken in believing Hope killed those millions but that wouldn't be any fun. Isn't time travel neat?

[Slant]

Bishop screwed up, like he always does. No matter what happens.

[lumpster]

Did you hear that noise? That was my head exploding trying to comprehend the above post.

[darknessatnoon]

Hope should be a good girl and step up to be a scapegoat for Bishop since he's run out of things to blame on Gambit.

[Meehl]

Even a "the ends justify the means" argument fails when you kill 9 billion to save 6 million. Thank you for trying to argue this point, though.

[remydat]

Even a "the ends justify the means" argument fails when you kill 9 billion to save 6 million. Thank you for trying to argue this point, though.

The ends don't justify the means. What Bishop did was wrong and will always be wrong. I am simply pointing out that if Hope does not kill those millions of people then the Bishop that did all those WRONG THINGS ceases to exist. That is a basic time travel paradox and has nothing to do with justifying Bishop's actions. It was pointing out the irony that the only way for Bishop to be redeemed is for Hope to avoid doing the thing that resulted in nutcase Bishop.

[darknessatnoon]

Bishop doesn't know what really happened. He can't even read. He only heard "tales" from his batshit grandmother.

[Slant]

All he's ever acted on were bullshit stories. And he's always wrong.

[Meehl]

The ends don't justify the means. What Bishop did was wrong and will always be wrong. I am simply pointing out that if Hope does not kill those millions of people then the Bishop that did all those WRONG THINGS ceases to exist. That is a basic time travel paradox and has nothing to do with justifying Bishop's actions. It was pointing out the irony that the only way for Bishop to be redeemed is for Hope to avoid doing the thing that resulted in nutcase Bishop.

Are you saying a time-displaced Bishop would disintegrate the moment his alternative universe ceases to exist? I don't think you understand how time travel/alt universes work in the Marvel U. Rachel timeline has been averted. Rachel is still here. Bishop is not going to cease to exist simply because Hope's actions are altered from his timeline.

[remydat]

Bishop screwed up, like he always does. No matter what happens.

Yes, once again Genocidal Bishop screwed up no matter what happens but we are talking about a time travel paradox here. If there are no mutant concentration camps because Hope never kills millions then Bishop never grows up hating Hope. If that is the case then he never becomes Genocidal Bishop.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Bishop doesn't know what really happened. He can't even read. He only heard "tales" from his batshit grandmother.

His grandmother is the real villain of the piece IMO

[remydat]

Are you saying a time-displaced Bishop would disintegrate the moment his alternative universe ceases to exist? I don't think you understand how time travel/alt universes work in the Marvel U. Rachel timeline has been averted. Rachel is still here. Bishop is not going to cease to exist simply because Hope's actions are altered from his timeline.

No I am saying in this reality if Hope doesn't kill those millions then the Bishop of the 616 never becomes the Genocidal Bishop because he does not grow up in the world that gave birth to Genocidal Bishop. The Genocidal Bishop stuck at the end of time or wherever the hell he is presumably will still exist because the many worlds theory suggests that every decision creates an alternate universe so the Genocidal Bishop simply becomes the Bishop from an alternate universe in which Hope does kill those millions but is not the Bishop from the 616.

[.A²]

Layla Miller knows exactly what will happen and, when, but is quietly biding her time with X-Factor. When Hope screws up, she'll intervene before Bishop's future can come into effect. And so she saves reality all over again, just as she did during House of M.

[Meehl]

No I am saying in this reality if Hope doesn't kill those millions then the Bishop of the 616 never becomes the Genocidal Bishop. The Genocidal Bishop stuck at the end of time presumably will still exist somewhere because the many worlds theory suggests that every decision creates an alternate universe so the Genocidal Bishop simply becomes the Bishop from the alternate universe in which Hope does kill those millions.

Except that Bishop has always been understood to have come from an alternative universe, Earth 1191. This has never been disputed. Whether or not there was ever going to be a 616 Bishop has never been revealed.

[remydat]

Bishop doesn't know what really happened. He can't even read. He only heard "tales" from his batshit grandmother.

I thought it was a batshit Gambit as the Witness that told him about Hope. The Witness/Gambit probably lied to him as payback for pre-MC Bishop thinking he was the X-traitor. No better way to fuck with someone who thinks you are a traitor by manipulating him into become the biggest traitor of them all.