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  1. #196
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Killing a character off screen is not the same as not publishing it anymore. Just like raping and killing a character is not the same as not publishing them anymore (Sue Dibny). Is the execution that matters. Why should I care about characters if DC is going to treat them like rubish?
    They didn't kill her off panel, Helena Bertinelli as we know her ceased to be published after the reboot. What has happened is that a new character( whom we've never met) that just happened to share the same name as Helena Bertinelli, died off panel which is much different than what happened to Sue Dibny. But heck, even if she did meet the same fate as Sue I'd still advocate the same response: move on and find something you enjoy. At the end of the day occurrences like what happened to Sue Dibny and other characters are just poorly written comics, and bad comics just aren't worth being offended over in my opinion as comics are just meant to entertain and if they stop being entertaining you just walk away.

  2. #197
    gentleman fish shark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    They didn't kill her off panel, Helena Bertinelli as we know her ceased to be published after the reboot. What has happened is that a new character( whom we've never met) that just happened to share the same name as Helena Bertinelli, died off panel which is much different than what happened to Sue Dibny. But heck, even if she did meet the same fate as Sue I'd still advocate the same response: move on and find something you enjoy. At the end of the day occurrences like what happened to Sue Dibny and other characters are just poorly written comics, and bad comics just aren't worth being offended over in my opinion as comics are just meant to entertain and if they stop being entertaining you just walk away.
    Helena Bertinelli has been killed off. Which means we won't see her character again unless she's revived or we get another Crisis. Having her in limbo is different because she can come back at any time. What they did is disrespectful to any fan of her.

    I did walk away. Just because I'm complaining in a what I believe is a public space doesn't mean I'm not voting with my wallet. I'm not buying anything with Helena Wayne on it and I'm only buying the books that have characters I care about. I prefer DC over Marvel because I'm attached to the characters. If DC doesn't care about them, why should I care about what they publish?

  3. #198
    Master of Time and Space Xarcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I've never really understood the notion of being insulted because a comic company decides to stop publishing a fictional character that I enjoy. I'm not saying no one here has the right to feel that way, but personally I just shrug and find something else to read.
    Because some people actually get emotionally invested in characters? I mean, that's what fiction is based on--people caring about the characters and wanting to see more of them. So yeah, it hurts and/or makes people angry when characters they like get the boot. It's the same with TV shows. Soap operas, for example, are completely dependent on viewers becoming emotionally invested in the characters. I'm not saying you should change the way you read comics, but you said that you didn't understand why other people get so attached to characters, so I thought I'd offer a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    They didn't kill her off panel, Helena Bertinelli as we know her ceased to be published after the reboot. What has happened is that a new character( whom we've never met) that just happened to share the same name as Helena Bertinelli, died off panel which is much different than what happened to Sue Dibny.
    If we've never met the DCnU Bertinelli (and we haven't), then how do you know she was a different character from the DCoU Bertinelli? Not all characters were significantly or completely changed after the relaunch. Isn't it equally possible that the old Bertinelli did carry over into the DCnU, then died? Just because the real DCnU Bertinelli could be a different character from the DCoU version, it doesn't mean that she actually is. Unless this was confirmed somewhere and I missed it?
    I'm still waiting for a new Wonder Twins ongoing. Let's make it happen, DC.

  4. #199
    Junior Member AaronStC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Helena Bertinelli has been killed off. Which means we won't see her character again unless she's revived or we get another Crisis. Having her in limbo is different because she can come back at any time. What they did is disrespectful to any fan of her.
    Reality check: we weren't going to see her again anyway.

  5. #200
    Junior Member AaronStC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarcon View Post

    If we've never met the DCnU Bertinelli (and we haven't), then how do you know she was a different character from the DCoU Bertinelli? Not all characters were significantly or completely changed after the relaunch. Isn't it equally possible that the old Bertinelli did carry over into the DCnU, then died? Just because the real DCnU Bertinelli could be a different character from the DCoU version, it doesn't mean that she actually is. Unless this was confirmed somewhere and I missed it?
    We won't really know until it WF addresses it but I seem to remember Levitz saying that Helena Wayne has been Huntress for the past 5 years (shortly after arriving from earth 2). Since 5 years ago is when the heroes started showing up that would mean Wayne was Huntress the whole time.

  6. #201
    gentleman fish shark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronStC View Post
    Reality check: we weren't going to see her again anyway.
    You work at DC? Because I remember Didio said Barry would never return. And yet here we are.

    Reality check: DC works in waves. The moment Didio and co are replaced, the characters the new heads like will take the spotlight. It happened before, it will happen again.

  7. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    It's kind of a meaningless statement given that Helena Bertinelli's attitude comes from her mafia background.

    The only thing they have in common is the code name and first name.
    Thanks for your input, but I disagree. I see things differently than you do. But "meaningless"? There's no reason to get insulting.
    Last edited by mrrightnow; 05-02-2012 at 12:08 PM.
    "If God is the answer, the wrong question has been asked."

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrightnow View Post
    Thanks for your input, but I disagree. I see things dfifferently than you do. But "meaningless"? There's no reason to get insulting.
    I see what you find to be insulting differently.

  9. #204
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Helena Bertinelli has been killed off. Which means we won't see her character again unless she's revived or we get another Crisis. Having her in limbo is different because she can come back at any time. What they did is disrespectful to any fan of her.

    I did walk away. Just because I'm complaining in a what I believe is a public space doesn't mean I'm not voting with my wallet. I'm not buying anything with Helena Wayne on it and I'm only buying the books that have characters I care about. I prefer DC over Marvel because I'm attached to the characters. If DC doesn't care about them, why should I care about what they publish?
    I just don't see how it's disrespectful, they didn't publish rude remarks about your mother or make comments about race or religion...they just wrote a story that you didn't personally care for. As to the last part I guess I wasn't clear before: you should care about what they publish only so far as it gives you enjoyment and should stop caring when it is no longer fun. At the end of the day that's all it is, fun and I just don't see taking a diverting hobby so seriously.

    I'm not saying it's wrong for you to feel that way it's just that I don't understand why you'd want to put yourself through that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xarcon View Post
    Because some people actually get emotionally invested in characters? I mean, that's what fiction is based on--people caring about the characters and wanting to see more of them. So yeah, it hurts and/or makes people angry when characters they like get the boot. It's the same with TV shows. Soap operas, for example, are completely dependent on viewers becoming emotionally invested in the characters. I'm not saying you should change the way you read comics, but you said that you didn't understand why other people get so attached to characters, so I thought I'd offer a reason.



    If we've never met the DCnU Bertinelli (and we haven't), then how do you know she was a different character from the DCoU Bertinelli? Not all characters were significantly or completely changed after the relaunch. Isn't it equally possible that the old Bertinelli did carry over into the DCnU, then died? Just because the real DCnU Bertinelli could be a different character from the DCoU version, it doesn't mean that she actually is. Unless this was confirmed somewhere and I missed it?
    There's being emotionally invested in a character or story and then there's feeling personally slighted because the character or story isn't being written the way you'd like and from were I'm standing there's a world of difference between the two. I don't think I'll ever understand the latter stance, getting upset and dwelling on something that is only meant to be entertaining just seems like a waste to me.

    As for the question of whether Bertenelli was the same or not I prefer to go with the assumption that allows me to enjoy an otherwise entertaining story.

  10. #205
    Junior Member AaronStC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    You work at DC? Because I remember Didio said Barry would never return. And yet here we are.

    Reality check: DC works in waves. The moment Didio and co are replaced, the characters the new heads like will take the spotlight. It happened before, it will happen again.
    Right, and Bertinelli being dead doesn't really change her odds of returning nor does her being alive. So, really, we're no better or worse off.

    My point is that DC isn't likely to have two Huntresses so Bertinelli wasn't going to show up in any meaningful way while Wayne is around. Unless of course they change her hero ID but I doubt that wouldn't make anyone happy.
    Last edited by AaronStC; 05-02-2012 at 10:49 AM.

  11. #206
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    You work at DC? Because I remember Didio said Barry would never return. And yet here we are.

    Reality check: DC works in waves. The moment Didio and co are replaced, the characters the new heads like will take the spotlight. It happened before, it will happen again.
    The thing is, it doesn't matter. If the powers that be want her back they will bring her back. It may take years or decades, but if they decide Helena Bertinelli fits their plans for the DCU better than Helena Wayne she will be back in a metric heartbeat even if they have to bring back Superboy-Prime and his retcon punch. The truth is that they made a series of decisions before and after the relaunch regarding what they wanted to do with the direction of the line as a whole.

    The first major result of that decision was that wherever possible all their superheroes would be unique, there would only be one Flash for example. The second was that they were bringing back the Multiverse and putting it front and center. Once those decisions were made, and the follow-up that they would use WF as a bridge book connecting Earth 2 to the main DCU Earth, it became obvious that Helena Wayne was the best fit for their plans. There's no particular character-driven reason to put her specifically in a buddy book with Power Girl - everything that links the two is because of Helena Wayne.

    So with that decided, Helena Bertinelli was gone.

    She could be back, the first rule of off-panel comic-book deaths is that they only last as long as the company wants them to. For the moment though, we have the Huntress that DC thinks is the best fit for the stories they want to tell and the Universe they have constructed.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  12. #207
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I just don't see how it's disrespectful, they didn't publish rude remarks about your mother or make comments about race or religion...they just wrote a story that you didn't personally care for. As to the last part I guess I wasn't clear before: you should care about what they publish only so far as it gives you enjoyment and should stop caring when it is no longer fun. At the end of the day that's all it is, fun and I just don't see taking a diverting hobby so seriously.

    I'm not saying it's wrong for you to feel that way it's just that I don't understand why you'd want to put yourself through that.



    There's being emotionally invested in a character or story and then there's feeling personally slighted because the character or story isn't being written the way you'd like and from were I'm standing there's a world of difference between the two. I don't think I'll ever understand the latter stance, getting upset and dwelling on something that is only meant to be entertaining just seems like a waste to me.

    As for the question of whether Bertenelli was the same or not I prefer to go with the assumption that allows me to enjoy an otherwise entertaining story.
    This is important. Crisis changed a lot of things in the DCU, and I really didn't agree with some of them. I missed Earth 2 and I missed Huntress and I missed the Legion (I didn't like the changes made after 5YG and none of the reboots ever caught my interest. I missed the things that weren't there that I had enjoyed, but I didn't dwell on it and let it drive me: I just read the books I enjoyed and ignored any replacements I didn't care for. The Legion never grabbed me until Geoff Johns brought it back, and I grew to like the new Huntress though I always had a soft spot for Helena Wayne.

    Read what you like, don't read what you don't like, but there's no point getting worked up about it.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  13. #208
    Senior Member Ed Sizzers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    There's being emotionally invested in a character or story and then there's feeling personally slighted because the character or story isn't being written the way you'd like and from were I'm standing there's a world of difference between the two. I don't think I'll ever understand the latter stance, getting upset and dwelling on something that is only meant to be entertaining just seems like a waste to me.
    Tell that to a football/baseball/basketball/etc fan when their favourite team lose.

    I'm equally baffled why you buy comics, much less take the time to discuss 'em, if you have no interest in the actual characters whatsoever.

    "The Tardis, when working properly, is capable of many amazing things. Not unlike myself."

  14. #209
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers View Post
    Tell that to a football/baseball/basketball/etc fan when their favourite team lose.

    I'm equally baffled why you buy comics, much less take the time to discuss 'em, if you have no interest in the actual characters whatsoever.
    I don't think many dwell on the losses, there's always the next game, the next season. It sucks but you move on.

    I have a great love for the characters and stories I'm reading, I just don't take it personally when they don't end up how I'd like. I don't know how much clearer I can make that.

  15. #210
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers View Post
    Tell that to a football/baseball/basketball/etc fan when their favourite team lose.

    I'm equally baffled why you buy comics, much less take the time to discuss 'em, if you have no interest in the actual characters whatsoever.
    As a devout hockey fan whose team got bounced in the first round of the playoffs after the second best season in franchise history, I can tell you that it hit hard. However, it doesn't mean that I'm going to dwell on it forever. One needs to accept the fact that a change you don't like happened and move on: either focus on what you liked in the past or look for something else in the present.

    It wasn't personal, DC did it because it fit their overall plans, not to upset any specific fan. Emotional investment is different from dwelling on things and treating them as personal attacks.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

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