Page 9 of 15 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 221
  1. #121
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    6,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toreador View Post
    It seems that the Bertenelli fans are whining/crying just as much as the Wayne fans were when the first change-over was made the only difference now is you can hear it on the internet. When the next change-over happens and this Helena Wayne is replaced with a Helena Morales or Helena Nakamuri the Wayne fans will cry about their 'true' Huntress being cast aside.

    Change happens. Either give the new version a chance or put your blinders on and condemn the series sight unseen. DC is hoping to attract new readers with a fresh unburdened character and will likely tweak this a bit until they find the right mixture to build a strong base. Just as they did when the Bertinelli Huntress first arrived on scene.
    Could you IMAGINE the uproar just after COIE if comic book boards existed on the internet back then like now?? Whoooooo-boy! This new Huntress again as I've said before seems to be going to be an amalgam in personality from the original HW to the subsequent HB, and I am open for the ride as long as it's a good story.
    Pull list:
    Batgirl, Inhuman, Justice League Beyond 2.0, Letter 44, She-Hulk, SM/WW, Swamp Thing, Ultimate FF

    Upcoming titles:
    Storm

  2. #122
    gentleman fish shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toreador View Post
    It seems that the Bertenelli fans are whining/crying just as much as the Wayne fans were when the first change-over was made the only difference now is you can hear it on the internet. When the next change-over happens and this Helena Wayne is replaced with a Helena Morales or Helena Nakamuri the Wayne fans will cry about their 'true' Huntress being cast aside.

    Change happens. Either give the new version a chance or put your blinders on and condemn the series sight unseen. DC is hoping to attract new readers with a fresh unburdened character and will likely tweak this a bit until they find the right mixture to build a strong base. Just as they did when the Bertinelli Huntress first arrived on scene.
    Batman and Catwoman's daughter from another universe sure sounds "fresh and unburdened".

  3. #123
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    mansfield, MA
    Posts
    20,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Batman and Catwoman's daughter from another universe sure sounds "fresh and unburdened".
    It seems like an easy concept to get to me actually.

  4. #124
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Could you IMAGINE the uproar just after COIE if comic book boards existed on the internet back then like now?? Whoooooo-boy! This new Huntress again as I've said before seems to be going to be an amalgam in personality from the original HW to the subsequent HB, and I am open for the ride as long as it's a good story.
    That's exactly true. In COIE, Helena Wayne is killed. In the relaunch, Helena Bertinelli is killed. I think they succeeded in doing more than just copying Helena Wayne over with the Helena Bertinelli name. They were very different characters with different motivations. As well as each operating in their perspective eras. This is just another step through time. Only with two previous characters to build from. While I'm disappointed, I have been through this before. Hated that Helena Wayne died. Really hate that Helena Bertinelli has died. But for real hate, I hated that Power Girl survived over Supergirl during COIE if you want to talk about real anger. Now that was truly sinful!

  5. #125
    gentleman fish shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It seems like an easy concept to get to me actually.
    Then I don't see what's so complicated about Helena Bertinelli. Or Wally West and the other characters that are in limbo because "new people are dumb and easily confused"

  6. #126
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wentworth Hall, Tellus
    Posts
    2,436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Batman and Catwoman's daughter from another universe sure sounds "fresh and unburdened".
    Fresh and unburdened? Maybe not, but it's a fantastic high concept. It's a brilliant and DC-specific high concept that's almost impossible to match.

    Helena Bertinelli has a good high concept, mafia princess turned vigilante, but it's not as powerful as Helena Wayne's because it ties in to what where Helena Wayne's ties in to who. People know what a mafia princess is, but they know WHO Batman and Catwoman are. Like the Barbara Gordon Batgirl, the Helena Wayne Huntress is the easiest one to get across to the general public because even people who don't read comics already know who they think she is.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  7. #127
    gentleman fish shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    Fresh and unburdened? Maybe not, but it's a fantastic high concept. It's a brilliant and DC-specific high concept that's almost impossible to match.

    Helena Bertinelli has a good high concept, mafia princess turned vigilante, but it's not as powerful as Helena Wayne's because it ties in to what where Helena Wayne's ties in to who. People know what a mafia princess is, but they know WHO Batman and Catwoman are. Like the Barbara Gordon Batgirl, the Helena Wayne Huntress is the easiest one to get across to the general public because even people who don't read comics already know who they think she is.
    To each their own. I find an italian, catholic anti-hero who doesn't follow Batman much more interesting than yet another WASP Wayne.

  8. #128
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wentworth Hall, Tellus
    Posts
    2,436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    To each their own. I find an italian, catholic anti-hero who doesn't follow Batman much more interesting than yet another WASP Wayne.
    Just because you find Helena Bertinelli more interesting doesn't mean she has a better high concept. She's certainly a more developed character and has often been a breath of fresh air in the DCU, but that doesn't say anything about the high concept. The movie and TV industries pay more attention to high concept than comics, but Helena Wayne's is really too good to ignore.

    "Daughter of Batman and Catwoman from another Universe." That sentence tells a member of the general public who doesn't read comics quite a lot about who Huntress is. It creates a stronger picture than any comparable sentence I can think of does of Helena Bertinelli. It's a better high concept and easier to market.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  9. #129
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    mansfield, MA
    Posts
    20,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Then I don't see what's so complicated about Helena Bertinelli. Or Wally West and the other characters that are in limbo because "new people are dumb and easily confused"
    Does anyone really buy that line?

    The real reason is, and has always been, they just don't feel like using those characters which is completely valid. Only that's not the answer incessant fan boys want to hear so they give them an answer that they deem is more palatable to their overly sensitive fans.

  10. #130
    Junior Member mex4173's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Just another decision that strikes me as DC fighting itself over "new reader" vs. "lapsed reader." (of which Wally West (JL, JLU, YJ) is obviously the poster boy)
    A utility belt full of crap and a positive outlook?

  11. #131
    gentleman fish shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    Just because you find Helena Bertinelli more interesting doesn't mean she has a better high concept. She's certainly a more developed character and has often been a breath of fresh air in the DCU, but that doesn't say anything about the high concept. The movie and TV industries pay more attention to high concept than comics, but Helena Wayne's is really too good to ignore.

    "Daughter of Batman and Catwoman from another Universe." That sentence tells a member of the general public who doesn't read comics quite a lot about who Huntress is. It creates a stronger picture than any comparable sentence I can think of does of Helena Bertinelli. It's a better high concept and easier to market.
    And just because you believe Helena Wayne has a higher concept doesn't mean she does. To each their own.

    TV used Helena Bertinelli, so I guess the people behind the animated shows didn't think Wayne was the higher concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Does anyone really buy that line?

    The real reason is, and has always been, they just don't feel like using those characters which is completely valid. Only that's not the answer incessant fan boys want to hear so they give them an answer that they deem is more palatable to their overly sensitive fans.
    Since a lot of people - mods included - had told me that the reason so many characters are benched is because they wanted to make the universe less complicated, yeah, lots of people believe it.

    I would actually be ok with them saying they don't care to use them, at least that would be honest.

  12. #132
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    mansfield, MA
    Posts
    20,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    And just because you believe Helena Wayne has a higher concept doesn't mean she does. To each their own.

    TV used Helena Bertinelli, so I guess the people behind the animated shows didn't think Wayne was the higher concept.



    Since a lot of people - mods included - had told me that the reason so many characters are benched is because they wanted to make the universe less complicated, yeah, lots of people believe it.

    I would actually be ok with them saying they don't care to use them, at least that would be honest.
    Having less characters does make it less complicated so it works both ways really, it just has nothing to do with the comprehension level of new readers.

  13. #133
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    Um, while this is a new version Helena Wayne IS the "real" Huntress. HB was a xerox cover with a different story inside. I prefer original KFC recipe.
    I don't eat junk food. (Man I'm witty. That's such a clever line! [hope I haven't been beaten to it] I love how it applies because KFC is 'junk food' and HW is a 'junk character')

    Seriously, HB is completely different to HW. One is basically an overdone 'what-if', one is a fleshed out, complex character.

    I'm disappointed in DC's decision. Not only to do away with a great character, but the way it was done AND how it complicates what was a fresh start for the DCU. Very, very disappointed. Still, I will vote with my wallet and won't be buying this book in any form and will wait for the day when someone comes to their senses and brings back the interesting Huntress in some form, even if she has a new 'hero name' and the two characters can co-exist if necessary.

  14. #134
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    mansfield, MA
    Posts
    20,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell View Post
    I don't eat junk food. (Man I'm witty. That's such a clever line! [hope I haven't been beaten to it] I love how it applies because KFC is 'junk food' and HW is a 'junk character')

    Seriously, HB is completely different to HW. One is basically an overdone 'what-if', one is a fleshed out, complex character.

    I'm disappointed in DC's decision. Not only to do away with a great character, but the way it was done AND how it complicates what was a fresh start for the DCU. Very, very disappointed. Still, I will vote with my wallet and won't be buying this book in any form and will wait for the day when someone comes to their senses and brings back the interesting Huntress in some form, even if she has a new 'hero name' and the two characters can co-exist if necessary.
    This doesn't make sense to me at all, other than the Huntress mini we don't really know much about Helena Wayne in the new continuity so on what are you basing your decision on? How do we know HW isn't a fully fleshed out and complex character?

    This seems like a classic definition of the phrase, "putting the cart before the horse." to me.

    I remember reading a lot of posts like this when Dick Grayson but on the cowl, "This isn't my Batman! I can't wait until they come to their senses and go back to writing stories about the REAL Batman."

    And what did we get from that change? Some pretty fun Batman stories. The same probably happened when they ditched the Helena Wayne and introduced Bertinrelli and to the same result; it was a big change but we got some really cool stories because of it.

    Is it kind of sucky that they decided not to write stories about a character you enjoyed? Sure, no one's saying it isn't, but at the same time I don't see how judging a new story based solely on the very emotional reason that it isn't about the character you wanted makes much sense.

  15. #135
    Elder Member Jared's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    10,767

    Default

    "Daughter of Batman and Catwoman from another Universe." That sentence tells a member of the general public who doesn't read comics quite a lot about who Huntress is?
    To someone who doesn't read comics, that sentence will illicit a "huh?" I don't see how it's going to draw in any more readers than Bertinelli's concept would. Maybe it won't draw any *less*, but what's the point of pissing on an established fan base unless you're going to gain enough new readers to make it worthwhile.
    Last edited by Jared; 04-28-2012 at 07:46 PM.
    "Family Guy jumped the shark when i stopped getting high every time i watched it. " - Alex

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •