Nubia as a villain in Young Justice Invasion??!!!

[Maximum Impact]

But not the same point of contention. An you are very much aware of that, but you are hoping to pull me into a silly pointless argument: Nubia is no way similiar to Queen Bee: End of discussion.

What argument? I'm not trying to pull you into anything Kelly. I think you're seeing something that's not really there.

[Dr. Hurt]

What's this obsession with Nubia? I dont get it. Does you life depend on this character being Nubia and not Queen Bee? It's stated in the series that she's Queen Bee, and she features prominently in an episode towards the end of the season.

PauloIapetus can you answer this for me please?

What if your theory is true? I mean... at the end of the day, this character has only appeared in a couple of episodes. WHO THE HELL CARES WHO SHE IS?

[Mr. Holmes]

PauloIapetus can you answer this for me please?

What if your theory is true? I mean... at the end of the day, this character has only appeared in a couple of episodes. WHO THE HELL CARES WHO SHE IS?

I can't believe this thread is still going after the whole point of it was debunked in the first response.

[Maximum Impact]

pauloiapetus can you answer this for me please?

What if your theory is true? I mean... At the end of the day, this character has only appeared in a couple of episodes. Who the hell cares who she is?

Who the hell cares about Strife?

[Retro315]

Queen Bee in the cartoon is pretty awesome; especially hearing Counselor Troi's voice threatening teenage heroes. It'll be cool to see Wonder Girl tackle her, actually; some lasso-of-truth versus thrall-master-slavery.

[PauloIapetus]

Except we aren't talking about those two. We are talking about these two

Attachment 92573Attachment 92574

Though frankly this would be a better representation of the character

Attachment 92575

These two characters look nothing alike. Any similarities between these two characters are in the minds of the people who seem to be seeing something that isn't really there.

Tap, tap, tap...excuse me, but these women do look alike....





I'm sure you won't see a resemblance, and many people wouldn't, that doesn't mean it's nonexistent. If another poster wants to make a thread questioning it, I really don't see the harm in it. If you find it invalid there are many other threads to respond to.

Do we have to rewind this thread and play it back from the beginning?

And here is another evidence that you weren't realy reading the thread, and didn't even tried to make yourself acquainted with the subject matter before making any comment.

Pre-Crisis version of Nubia was a twin sister of Diana, possessing only the black skin as the main distinct factor. It's due to this fact that Maximum Impact and myself have put emphasis in the strange physical resemblance between Young Justice's Queen Bee and Young Justice's Wonder Woman in this context of commenting the curious parallels in design between Queen Bee and Pre Crisis's Nubia. Specialy relevant if we take into account the facts that those characteristics and resemblances were totaly absent of ANY PREVIOUS version of Queen Bee as portrayed in ANY kind of media.

Post Crisis's Nu'bia ( take notice of the little but relevant difference) is not realy relevant to this thread because she and Diana were not related to the same extent.

But as I've tried to clarify, Phil Jimenez, in Post Infinite/Final Crisis period , retroactively, reestablished the notion of Nubia as a kind of Diana's twin.

She's made an appearance in the poster included in Wonder Woman 600, drawn by Phill Jimenez.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

And here is another evidence that you weren't realy reading the thread, and didn't even tried to make yourself acquainted with the subject matter before making any comment. Pre Crisis version of Nubia was a twin sister of Diana, possessing only the black skin as the main distinct factor. Post Crisis's Nu'bia is not realy relevant to this thread because she and Diana were not related to the same extent. But as I've tried to clarify Phil Jimenez Post Infinite/Final Crisis of Nubia retroctively reestablished the notion of Nubia as a kind of Diana's twin. She's made an apperance in the poster included in Wonder Woman 600, drawn by Phill Jimenez.

I'm sorry but what does this have to do with your theory that Nubia & Queen Bee have design themes in common, even when they clearly don't?

i'm sorry PauloIapetus, but a lesson on the history of pre-crisis Nubia is not going to change the fact that the villain in Young Justice is Queen Bee & that Queen Bee looks nothing like Nubia. They do not share design features, any more then me wearing pants & you wearing pants makes us the same person.

At this point, your inability to yield a moot point is coming off more as mule headed stubborness, then cleverness: Nor will any amount of history lessons on pre-crisis continuity going to make your statement of a design connection between Nubia & Queen Bee any the less imagined. I think at this point, it'd be best to conceed the point, as all that is going to happen is that people are going to continue to tell you that you are wrong: An to be fair, at this point you are demonstrably wrong.

[PauloIapetus]

Kelly Warrior Princess, I'm sorry, but, since that you are truly not interested in reading the content of the thread before making your posts I'll, equaly, make use of my prerrogative of not reading or answering your replys.

I truly think that I've made my point clear enough to anyone actualy interested in comprehend it. I'm sorry if the thread was not enticing to your tastes and not sufficiently engaging to provoke your intellect or attention.

PauloIapetus can you answer this for me please?

What if your theory is true? I mean... at the end of the day, this character has only appeared in a couple of episodes. WHO THE HELL CARES WHO SHE IS?

In order to explain this to you Dr Hurt Id 'have to make posts even more demanding in terms of time and attention than the previous ones were, which would not be advisable. It's an obvious thing to conclude because "my theory" was already so grossly misunderstood by several people that have posted in the topic.

Given the obvious level of missaplied attention and misunderstanding plaguing the thread, it's fair to conclude that our time would be better employed elsewhere. Will all the due respect to yourself,

Anyways, if your question is due to true curiosity and was not simply a rhetorical one, try to read the previous messages more attentively because, quite frankly, I think that the innuendoes 'd become clearer to you.

Best regards.

[Dr. Hurt]

This from the guy who filled 5 pages with a diatribe on Nubia, a character mostly forgotten, a character he NEEDS Queen Bee to be in the YJ cartoon.

- Is QB Nubia?
- No.
- Are you sure?
- Yes, they called her QB in the show.
- Well what if they wanted her to be Nubia at first but then changed it?
- She's QB and it's just the animation making everyone look the same.
- But what if....
- She's Queen Bee now, so who cares what they planned?
- Yeah but it's a conspiracy....

[PauloIapetus]

Sure, every bit as clear as the fact that I've already said before that Genocide and Theana, characters of Gail Simone's run, were "realy" the original Shim'tar in disguise.

I love the red hair.

It just needs to be handled differently.

Cheers !!!

She remembers me of another Forgotten Villain of Diana's Past the mysterious first Shim'tar that was :

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/62765.html

Also masked!

Also enhanced with a mystical stolen divine artifact, Hipolyta's Girdle

Also connected to Diana in a mysterious way possibly being a kind of evil doppelgänger linked to her Amazonian heritage ( the same goes to Theana)

Also pummeled Diana's mercilessly and almost beat her to a pulp.

Shim'tar and Theana shared:

a)An amazonian upbringing connected to an aunt of Diana (Antiope/Astarte)
Trained as future champions of their respective Matriarchal societies but kinda of mantained out-of-the-spotlight for secret reasons and convenience's sake

b)Have being subjected to experiments that enhanced their natural abilities and, quite probably, possessed bionic implants or were geneticaly changed through science and/or magic.

c) Both of them engage Diana in a battle "contest style" for cerimonial/sociologic reasons while used by a perverted "mother figure" (Astarte, Faruka/Kadesha Banu)


That of course is also similar with the first appearance of Pre-Crisis Nubia

I think that Diana unfortunately has a myriad of enemies/ocasional antagonists trying to fill the same niche ( Shim'tar, Devastation, Genocide,Theana, Nu'bia), all the them fighting for the same "vital space" and kinda of diluting each other. I propose that WW's writers need to tie up loose ends of the past and to evaluate better the untapped potential of old properties and mysteries such as Shim'tar's instead of creating new loose ends with their own unfullfilled plotlines and underdeveloped characters.

That, BTW, is also similar with my observations that, in JMS's Odyssey, it was a strange coincidence to note that Nemesis, the storyarc's Big Bad, had the same master plan of Post Crisis's Hecate ( to possess Diana), at the same time that this same storyline also presented a new retconned version of the Goddess Hecate that was sanitized in order to become politicaly correct. I must have made the point that the characters were, indeed, the same person without realizing the fact...

And, FYI, I wasn't alone or even the first in pointing out the resemblances between Diana and Young Justice's Queen Bee.

(...)
On a different note...

Is Queen Bee really a recognizable character...on the first quick glance of Queen Bee they showed I'm ashamed to admit that my first thought was "What is Wonder Woman doing with the super-villains?"
Then again given WW profound absence from this episode despite the fact we know they can use WW characters...maybe Batman did send her to work undercover in the Light as Queen Bee? That would also explain why Klarion was chosen over Circe or another magic based WW villain by the show creators...a WW foe would see through her disguise instantly. Meanwhile how many times has she gotten up close and personal with Lex, Vandal, Brain, Ocean Master, or Ras....not much I'd venture. Yeah...I doubt this crazy theory is really the case, but it would be sorta cool if it was though.

[Outside_85]

And, FYI, I wasn't alone or even the first in pointing out the resemblances between Diana and Young Justice Queen Bee.

Does that mean Superman and Batman from Bruce Timm's animations are the same guy? Like the only thing that's really different about their visuals is a curl of hair (which they did make fun of in one Superman episode).

[PauloIapetus]

Sure.

Without any shadow of doubt, they must have been the same person, exactly in the same way that Ramona Fradon's Aquaman and Superman were the same being in the old Superfriend's comic, with the same hairdo, just with different colours. Oh YEAH!!!

The Kryptonian powers of Pre-Crisis Superman were great enought to enable him to appear/exist simultaneously in two places all the time!! How have I not realized this simple truth before?

Brilliant observation, very apropos!!!

[Dr. Hurt]

ROFL. Outside you just cant win.

[PauloIapetus]

Oh, sometimes, no, you simply cant win at all.

Quite frankly, Dr Hurt, would you say that, for instance, knowing that Genocide was originaly intended as a resurrected Knockout ( a fact confirmed by Gail Simone in those boards) doesn't help to explain some strange ocurrences in The Rise of the Olympians storyline?

Discarded ideas and analogies, sometimes, shown where are/were the goals of the artists in a so much more clear way than the finished product with the new substitute idea just copied and pasted above the old one. Take a look in the Odyssey's case, too, an example that, IMO, shown quite well the relevance that, sometimes, such an exchange/censorship might exert in a storyline.

Maybe ( and I truly hope so), this isn't/will not be the case of Queen Bee ( asssuming that there was a scratched idea) but how we can say for sure before the conclusion of the series?

I'm here expecting that I've making myself clearer to you. This thread of mine doesn't have anything to do with a wish from myself of seeing Nubia adapted to Cartoon media at all costs as you have insisted to say; it's simple curiosity and a realization that events such as these are a recurrent fact in Wonder Woman's history of adaptations to other media and speculation about the impact that it might have had in the series development/direction.

Several prominent characters of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery are deemed as politicaly incorrect and , thus, unsuitable to be faithfully adapted to other types of media. Nubia, Doctor Psycho( originaly calqued in the stereotyped image of the "Jewish" villain) and even the powered by Hecate Circe together with the powered by Urzkartaga Cheetah might have been good examples of this and, quite possibly, this fact could help to explain their frequent mischaracterizations in the comic itself, with their histories jetissoned from time to time without any explanations.

Take notice of the anomalous entire backstory/characterization of Circe in JLA Unlimited and her (IMO) not so casual resemblance to the design and characterization of Marvel's Sersi in apparent replacement of her "true origin"/looks as portrayed in the DCU. In the JLA Unlimited she was flirtatious,upbeat while her DCU's counterpart is nihilistic, sour( though this fact is, frequently, disguised behind a flivorous facade/veneer). The treatment given to Circe in the cartoon has made Circe an almost exact counterpart to the Eternal Marvel Sersi and this choice seemed to be grafted into the character's design.

In the Marvel Universe, indeed, the Eternal WAS the true original Circe with her actual name ( Sersi)misspelled by mortal chroniclers.




This doesn't imply that I'm saying that the two characters "were" the same person, just that aspects from both of them were conflated due to political convenience, and it is this aspect, the "political" that seems to be frequently neglected by the fandom while analysing/judging storyline/characterizations choices.

Hope that have helped.

[Icefan]

Dude, it is and always was Queen Bee of Bialya.