An Open Letter to the Real Victor Van Damme (tMichael Jackson of Ultimate Villains)

[horsehead]

I agree with the OP.
Fuck 'Dead Means Dead'. We want Doom back!

I'm going with 'dead means dead' but in Doom's case it's 'turns out he wasn't actually dead means not dead'

[Fizicks]

Very well written OP. I'm probably the biggest Ultimate Doctor Doom fan in this forum, so I definitely feel your sadness.

I started a thread a while back explaining why I think Doctor Doom cannot possibly be dead. In case you haven't had a look: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ive&highlight=
Ignore the later posts as it starts to get off topic, such as debating about Sue being smarter than Reed (which is rubbish).

1. Retconning Ellis' original design: Now I know that this was an editorial choice, but Millar REALLY couldn't think of a better way to change him? How the hell do you take goat legs, put metal plates on them and then have normal non-bulgy Dr. Doom legs?

As you said, that's hardly Millar's fault, he was told to do so by the editorials. At least he gave a plausible explanation, which didn't contradict continuity or change the character (he still has the goat legs, they're just covered up). I never see you giving Loeb shit for changing Thor's hammer or Sabretooth's adamantium claws. The former with a terrible cover-up and the latter with NO explanation whatsoever.

2. Doom becoming Reed. Doom DESPISED Reed, yes he wanted to hurt him by switching bodies, but he's also becoming the number one thing he hates the most in the world.

Yes, he despised Reed, so he wanted to take everything he had away from him, make him feel terrible.

3. Sacrificing himself to save his most hated enemies. Um...what? This is as out of character as Pyro in The Ultimates 3.

Wrong again. Maybe you don't really understand Doom. As ebari said, Doom wouldn't allow Reed the glory and satisfaction of saving the world. So he did it himself. And he explicitly asked that he be remembered as the one who saved the world, showing that he's really doing it for the glory, to one up Reed. He was the exact same Doom as before.
And again I don't see you giving Loeb shit for changing characters like Thor, where they DO become extremely out of character. Instead I see you praising him for doing so.

I agree with the OP.
Fuck 'Dead Means Dead'. We want Doom back!

While I do wish that most of the characters are still alive, I still wouldn't say f*ck "dead means dead". However, some "dead" characters can be brought back very plausibly without it being some "magical" ressurection.

Doctor Doom is an example. He should still be in the Zombieverse, and the one Ben killed could hardly have been Doom.
Or Wolverine. His incredible healing factor makes it possible for him to come back without it being a cheesy resurrection.
Janet can also be brought back, through the Jocasta Project, which still hasn't been touched on. Of course, I wouldn't expect her to be the same character as before but she can still be brought back without a cheesy resurrection.

Other characters that I'd love to see return are Hank Pym and Beast, but I don't see any way of bringing them back without it being a "magical" ressurection. As much as I love them, I'd say they should stay dead.

[wyokid]

Very well written OP. I'm probably the biggest Ultimate Doctor Doom fan in this forum, so I definitely feel your sadness.

I started a thread a while back explaining why I think Doctor Doom cannot possibly be dead. In case you haven't had a look: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ive&highlight=
Ignore the later posts as it starts to get off topic, such as debating about Sue being smarter than Reed (which is rubbish).


As you said, that's hardly Millar's fault, he was told to do so by the editorials. At least he gave a plausible explanation, which didn't contradict continuity or change the character (he still has the goat legs, they're just covered up). I never see you giving Loeb shit for changing Thor's hammer or Sabretooth's adamantium claws. The former with a terrible cover-up and the latter with NO explanation whatsoever.



Yes, he despised Reed, so he wanted to take everything he had away from him, make him feel terrible.


Wrong again. Maybe you don't really understand Doom. As ebari said, Doom wouldn't allow Reed the glory and satisfaction of saving the world. So he did it himself. And he explicitly asked that he be remembered as the one who saved the world, showing that he's really doing it for the glory, to one up Reed. He was the exact same Doom as before.
And again I don't see you giving Loeb shit for changing characters like Thor, where they DO become extremely out of character. Instead I see you praising him for doing so.




While I do wish that most of the characters are still alive, I still wouldn't say f*ck "dead means dead". However, some "dead" characters can be brought back very plausibly without it being some "magical" ressurection.

Doctor Doom is an example. He should still be in the Zombieverse, and the one Ben killed could hardly have been Doom.
Or Wolverine. His incredible healing factor makes it possible for him to come back without it being a cheesy resurrection.
Janet can also be brought back, through the Jocasta Project, which still hasn't been touched on. Of course, I wouldn't expect her to be the same character as before but she can still be brought back without a cheesy resurrection.

Other characters that I'd love to see return are Hank Pym and Beast, but I don't see any way of bringing them back without it being a "magical" ressurection. As much as I love them, I'd say they should stay dead.

Mad changed Thor's hammer and Loeb even explained it by giving Thor an armory. Just because Sabertooth didn't use them doesn't mean he doesn't have those awful freaking things.

I've already explained why IMO all the characters are acting the same in TU3.

[Robbie_Jee]

Mad changed Thor's hammer and Loeb even explained it by giving Thor an armory.

No the hammer was like that throughout all the Loeb books. It was clearly Loeb's decision to get rid of the axe-hammer. Or are you saying Mad added the hammer without Loeb realising? I think that's quite unlikely.

[Fizicks]

Mad changed Thor's hammer and Loeb even explained it by giving Thor an armory. Just because Sabertooth didn't use them doesn't mean he doesn't have those awful freaking things.

I've already explained why IMO all the characters are acting the same in TU3.

Read my previous post, I did acknowledge Loeb's cover-up for Thor's wrong hammer. And as Robbie said the stone hammer was used throughout Loeb's book, highly unlikely that it was Mad's call.

And your bias is very clear. "Just because Sabertooth didn't use them doesn't mean he doesn't have those awful freaking things." Same thing for Doom, just because you can't see his goat legs doesn't mean he doesn't have them. And Millar actually had the decency to EXPLAIN it. He wasn't disrespecting Ellis because it was editorial's idea, AND he provided an explanation. Loeb on the other hand just decided to make Sabretooth use his fingernail claws like his 616 counterpart (which Sabretooth previously never did in the UU), with no explanation whatsoever.

[Drz]

Not to mention it's not Millar's fault Greg Land had problems tracing goat legs.

[Alex6166]

I only read so many Ultimate books, but I got around to reading Ultimatum and thought there version of Doom looked small and weak. Is his name really 'Van Damme'? because I saw Time Cop when it came out and it was alright...

As a related note, when they got Joe Mad! back to do some comics, they should of had him doing a Thor book. Look at his Battlechasers stuff. It would of been killer.