New Gods #1 in 3rd Wave rec...

[Reginleif]

Amythest is the only good title here

[jsf]

I'd pick up:

Kamandi
the Losers
Doom Patrol
the Creeper
the New Gods

The rest I'm sort of meh about (the Atom would be a definite for me if it were Ray Palmer).

[Desaad]

I want to go more in depth, but my first thought is...the characters themselves - New Gods, Kamandi, Amythst, Captain Marvel - are not enough, not nearly enough. The only thing worth reading are books with passionate creators. That's the common denominator for all of the most creatively successful books of the relaunch; they're all books that people really want to be working on, not because it's just a random comic book, or a paycheck, but because they think they have a great take on the character(s) and concepts.

Do I want a New Gods title? Hell yes I do. But I'm hard pressed to think of more than a handful of creators who actually 'get' the New Gods on all the levels one needs to to have any hope of writing them; and those that I think do, or could, 'get' them STILL fail, more often than not, when they try to deal with the characters (or rough obvious homages to the characters). Carey, Evanier, Starlin, Pollack, Ostrander, PAD, Cornell...none of them have done it, despite attempts. And even someone like Busiek, even he has admitted that he probably wouldn't know what to do with the characters (though that may have changed) outside of Darkseid.

[Reginleif]

I want to go more in depth, but my first thought is...the characters themselves - New Gods, Kamandi, Amythst, Captain Marvel - are not enough, not nearly enough. The only thing worth reading are books with passionate creators. That's the common denominator for all of the most creatively successful books of the relaunch; they're all books that people really want to be working on, not because it's just a random comic book, or a paycheck, but because they think they have a great take on the character(s) and concepts.

Do I want a New Gods title? Hell yes I do. But I'm hard pressed to think of more than a handful of creators who actually 'get' the New Gods on all the levels one needs to to have any hope of writing them; and those that I think do, or could, 'get' them STILL fail, more often than not, when they try to deal with the characters (or rough obvious homages to the characters). Carey, Evanier, Starlin, Pollack, Ostrander, PAD, Cornell...none of them have done it, despite attempts. And even someone like Busiek, even he has admitted that he probably wouldn't know what to do with the characters (though that may have changed) outside of Darkseid.

When I first started reading comics, I followed characters, and I quickly understood this folly (so I still pull, 5 of 7 of my original pull list). Nevertheless no amount of good writing will make me like a Deathstroke book, which praises violance in itself. None of these titles are in themselves repulsive to me, but still, saying the follow the author not the character still has its limits. Amythest is the only character I would buy simply for the character, but I could easily be swayed on the others.

[Desaad]

But ultimately it's the quality that matters, whether you're buying a book for the character or the writer. Because at some point the character fan is going to drop a book that is horrible; maybe not all the hardcore fans, sure, but even they will eventually be turned off if something that really goes against the grain of the character as they see it is done.

The little characters, that a third wave would launch, are never going to survive based on who they are alone. There has to be something new, different and vital being done with them to hope to get anything sustainable.

Swamp Thing and Animal Man aren't flourishing because they are Swamp Thing and Animal Man; they're flourishing because of the quality of their books. Not every good book becomes popular (OMAC, I, Vampire, Frankenstein, Demon Knights, and a host of others in just the nu52 alone) but it certainly helps.

I'm a New Gods fan, I think I'm probably the biggest New Gods fan you're ever going to meet, but I've had to slog through some shite in my day as a result. I'd rather the characters lie fallow than someone mess them up the way Jim Starlin did (for instance). At that point they have none of the qualities that MAKE them characters I like anyway.

[Reginleif]

But ultimately it's the quality that matters, whether you're buying a book for the character or the writer. Because at some point the character fan is going to drop a book that is horrible; maybe not all the hardcore fans, sure, but even they will eventually be turned off if something that really goes against the grain of the character as they see it is done.

The little characters, that a third wave would launch, are never going to survive based on who they are alone. There has to be something new, different and vital being done with them to hope to get anything sustainable.

Swamp Thing and Animal Man aren't flourishing because they are Swamp Thing and Animal Man; they're flourishing because of the quality of their books. Not every good book becomes popular (OMAC, I, Vampire, Frankenstein, Demon Knights, and a host of others in just the nu52 alone) but it certainly helps.

I'm a New Gods fan, I think I'm probably the biggest New Gods fan you're ever going to meet, but I've had to slog through some shite in my day as a result. I'd rather the characters lie fallow than someone mess them up the way Jim Starlin did (for instance). At that point they have none of the qualities that MAKE them characters I like anyway.

DC has shown during the N52 at least, that they are receptive to fan critism of titles, even high selling ones though. TDK and Superman sold well, but were highly regarded as s****, yet DC has done creative changes for those titles. If fans are devoted to a title in face of such crap, they can keep a title alive until change occurs.

[Desaad]

But what about all the crap titles that didn't survive the cull?

[Reginleif]

But what about all the crap titles that didn't survive the cull?

Its about perseverance with numbers. Most books in my opinion of the 52 are crap, but IMO, you still have to show DC that there is a value in them. TT could be could and certainly has been in the past, maybe it can again? I just personally do not like the idea of letting things remain 'fallow' because sometimes they become forgotten.

[Desaad]

TT is a name title. None of the books we are talking about are going to be 'name' titles. All of those are good and used up, outside of Shazam/Captain Marvel. Of the Second Wave, only Batman Inc (which is a Batman story) and Earth 2 (via JSA) are name titles. Batman is an expansion of the franchise that is accepted as a 'core' book due to the creative team and the nature of their previous run on the title.

Name titles can afford to be crap. Small-time titles, as far as I've seen, cannot.

[Reginleif]

TT is a name title. None of the books we are talking about are going to be 'name' titles. All of those are good and used up, outside of Shazam/Captain Marvel. Of the Second Wave, only Batman Inc (which is a Batman story) and Earth 2 (via JSA) are name titles. Batman is an expansion of the franchise that is accepted as a 'core' book due to the creative team and the nature of their previous run on the title.

Name titles can afford to be crap. Small-time titles, as far as I've seen, cannot.

Yes, I know, Im just sayian that we should fight to preserve the things we like, especially if they are wee titles. Creative shifts have occurred even for less successful titles in an attempt to improve their quality as well, because they were still seen as having value. Anyway all I meant to say was that for me at least, character is in at least inviting someone into a comic by setting a genre and atmosphere. Its unlikely that a Supergirl book will be like a Deathstroke one, however after that it is up to the writer. I didnt mind Milligans RL (still dropped it though), but I really do not like his JLD and the only reason was he was telling a story in which I was not interested in.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

What does Newsarama do anymore, besides Top Ten lists?

[bluebeetle73]

Atom and Blue Devil (out of nostalgia) are the only two on that list I'd even bother with.
Since they're doing Earth-2, I'd rather see a Charlton characters ongoing book. Is it still Earth-4?
I'd like a Booster Gold solo, but I'd settle for the JLI being a bit better.

[Fate's Faith]

I like the idea they put forth with the Creeper. I wouldn't mind most of those titles except for Lobo and the Losers. The Losers because I think GI Combat can handle them. Don't need another low selling war comics. And Lobo I have never liked. I don't even like when he guest stars in a book. Even if they can't do those titles, I do wish they'd give them an arc in DC Presents because that is exactly what I would think that title should be, a testing ground for potential series. Or just to keep us up to date on the feature star if they can't support a title themselves.

[The Frozen Reptile]

The Atom would be awesome. It was nice to see him a bit in the Adventure Comics run from last year, even though it was brief. The Loses are cool for those that like war comics and I would like to see a return of the original Doom Patrol. I don't think we need a New Gods book because they seem to have been made part of the Superman family of characters now, just give them some backups in Action, or maybe the odd mini-series.

[Zorkel567]

Personally, I'm hoping for another Green Lantern family title in Wave 3. Maybe a Tales of the Corps book, or a Blue Lanterns book.