Secret Avengers #26 *Spoilers*

[Starfish]

Well the recent Fear Itself follow up mini series, The Fearless, starred Valkyrie and she kicked all sorts of ass in it.

I was pleasantly surprised that Thor managed to slow the Phoenix down. He's rarely shown to be the "big gun" he is portrayed as.
Also re Carol agreeing to kill the Avengers, there is something more going on here. I suspect that even if the Avengers die with the Phoenix around there is a good chance of resurrection scenario. Didn't it revivethe deceased Mar-Vell?

The Fearless made me a Valkyrie fan. Very exciting limited series.

I agree with MD's criticism in general, however. More often than not, female Avengers members get forced to take the back seats, especially when it comes to the big events. That really needs some improvement, especially as there are only a few Marvel titles where this is consistently better.

As for Carol and Protector, previews for future issues already revealed so much: spoilers:

"Can Ms. Marvel and The Protector break free of Minister Marvel’s influence to aid their former companions?"

end of spoilers

[nosocialize100]

WTF?!? Why is Carol siding with Captain Marvel to KILL THE AVENGERS?!? Seriously, WTF?!? They better have a good explanation for this monstrosity.

I was thinking the same thing. One more reason why I didn't like the issue.

[John Ossie]

The Fearless made me a Valkyrie fan. Very exciting limited series.

I agree with MD's criticism in general, however. More often than not, female Avengers members get forced to take the back seats, especially when it comes to the big events. That really needs some improvement, especially as there are only a few Marvel titles where this is consistently better.

As for Carol and Protector, previews for future issues already revealed so much: spoilers:

"Can Ms. Marvel and The Protector break free of Minister Marvel’s influence to aid their former companions?"

end of spoilers

Haven't read The Fearless yet may pick that up on trade, always liked Valkyrie as a character however.

As for the spoiler well that confirms my suspicion then that spoilers:

that Ms Marvel did NOT agree to kill the Avengers like some thought, same with Noh-Varr possibly

end of spoilers

[jackolover]

One thing that struck me right away, was that the Phoenix didn't fry those it breathed fire on. Why is that? It destroyed planets which exploded, but these, "humans" she lets survive. This tells me the Phoenix doesn't want to harm the people of Earth.

Once again I'm baffled by the people writing Thor. He has the task of getting the Pheonix attention and he does what? He shoots a bit of lightning at it. Not even "summoning all the cosmic storms" or anything like that. What's even stranger is, it seems that it actually bothered the Phoenix for a bit. If there was ever a time to use your most powerful abilities, you'd think NOW is that moment.

And in AvX #4 he's throwing the hammer at it....a bird made of fire...

Have any of these people ever read a Thor comic before? Lol

It didn't look like Lightening. It looked like something else - maybe a vortex by the spiraling shape of the energy.

I've just already accepted long ago that in events and other peoples comics Thor will throw his hammer and smack stuff, and at most use some lightning. Seeing him trying to get the crew to drink some brew was a lot of fun though, even if it seems off for the more stoic Thor we've seen lately. (haven't been following Fraction's stuff though so unknown)

But to be fair hitting things with his hammer is usually enough.

This is a recently resurrected Thor, who in the Thor books acts a lot more rowdy than the King Thor that appeared in the JMS books. This brew drinking Thor fits that profile . So I have to wonder, if Thor approaches threats of this nature with booze, (and Valkarie Brunhilde likes this Thor enough to drink with him, too), then we are seeing a more laid back Thor here, who is less grim and less serious about the fate of himself or the Planet Earth. Especially his speech to the SA before they go out to meet the Phoenix. I've never heard Thor give a pep talk before and now we hear Steve Rogers in his voice. This is a really different Thor, even from the Silver Age. Kirby's Thor had a regal feel to it, but this one also feels like a forgery, much like Tanarus.

...Is it just me, or does Remender not like Captain Britain?

I felt very uncomfortable with the way Beast started belittling Captain Britain. I don't know if there is any history between Hank and Cap B, but Cap B wasn't reacting to the jibes very much and that strikes me odd. Cap B can rip Hanks head off, and even teleport Hank to Underworld, yet he just sits there and takes it.

[Lady_Alternate]

WTF?!? Why is Carol siding with Captain Marvel to KILL THE AVENGERS?!? Seriously, WTF?!? They better have a good explanation for this monstrosity.

I was thinking the same thing. One more reason why I didn't like the issue.

If it wasn't obvious to you that Carol and Protector were under an outside influence (though Noh-Varr seems to be embracing it rather than resisting) then it may be worth going back over the book. I found the suggestion to be pretty clear.

[John Ossie]

One thing that struck me right away, was that the Phoenix didn't fry those it breathed fire on. Why is that? It destroyed planets which exploded, but these, "humans" she lets survive. This tells me the Phoenix doesn't want to harm the people of Earth.

I agree with the assessment that the Phoenix didn't seem like it wanted to do real harm to them especially since it can destroy planets there's no way they'd have survived a real attack by the Phoenix if it wanted them dead (well maybe Thor and Valkyrie but the rest I'd have thought would be incinerated).

[jackolover]

By far the best comic to come out today! Thor and Val drinking was ace and Brian admitting he can't hold is liquor was priceless as well. War Machine being taken out will get bitched about I'm sure. and Carol's role just jumped up in interest by a ton. Good stuff. But the best part of the issue was Beast explaining to Brian why everyone thinks he's such a joke. So glad he took that dick down a peg or two. Captain Britain has always been a pompous douche and Beast stamping that on his head was AMAZING!

I just don't get the purpose of that dressing down. These people are here to collaborate, and this thing Hank is doing is the opposite to that. But something happens in this that makes Beast seem correct, when Cap B takes the Phoenix pacifier, and tries to use it and he doesn't have the proper power to make it work. Then Beast tells him off for being so idiotic not to realize Beast has all the answers, but Cap B doesn't listen.

I didn't care for Beast admonishing Captain Britain.

Is there any defense for Captain Britain? I never found Cap B pompous, so I didn't really understand where Beast was coming from.

Beasts machine was never going to work and Brian provided him with his scapegoat

That seems a little too contrived on the part of Henry McCoy, to go to such lengths as to rip into Cap B. It seems to me Hank and Cap B have some history, but I don't know what it is.

Why do you think the machine was never going to work?

Between Scott Summers, Clint Barton, and Brian Braddock, Hank's become quite the expert at being the voice of harsh reason, telling people off who have it coming! (Though Scott is far worse than the latter two).

Also, was the implication that Brian acted impulsively because he was under the influence from the beer he shared with Thor and Valkyrie, as well as him being an egotistical jerk in general?

Yes. I could accept that the beer was Brians poor decision making.

I'm not going to answer that with a blanket statement.

At the moment? No, I would say the women are not playing major roles that often. However, there are plenty of times in the past when they absolutely have. However, for the most part... the Avengers' most famous faces are all the guys.

I saw Black Widow in the Avengers movie and I have to say, I never saw a better showing by a female as that lady. I think the Avengers movie was to showcase her.

That aside, I think female characters are rather window dressing especially in this book. Fear Itself:Fearless was the exception, because Valkarie defied Captain America to try to collect all the Serpents hammers, and succeeded. What did we see in this? Val drunk and disorderly, and swinging a sword at the Phoenix, (yeah, that's gonna help), and Ms Marvel hovering in space pointing her arms at the Phoenix. Carol can't absorb that kind of energy.

You know, it just occurs to me, that the mischaracterisatons of Carol and Noh came after the Phoenix blasted them with fire. Does the Birds breath have some powers to alter individuals?

[jackolover]

Ok, that makes sense. I guess magic and tech don't always mix. I think maybe Pym could have whipped something up, he's shown he can mix the two a bit. Still say he was overreacting, just a tad.

I guess Pym could be the next Doctor Doom. I wonder what a good Doctor Doom would be like?

I did love the Beast/Britain exchanges. I totally disagree with the idea that Remender has to hate the character in order to put him through some drama. In fact, I'd say that's a sign that he actually likes him enough to give him some kind of arc when, as far as I can tell, it wasn't strictly necessary for the plot. The Phoenix could have just blasted the device beyond repair and that would be the end of it. And really, I'd rather watch characters who have some place to go emotionally than just drown myself in a sea of walking superpowers going from A to Z through the whole arc. That would be pretty boring.

So you think the fact the Phoenix was coddling the SA was a sign the Phoenix wishes them no harm? It did appear to me that the Phoenix could have swept past the SA at the speed of light and left them as ashes scattered in it's wake. It treated the Avengers with kid gloves, to my mind.

[jackolover]

Neither Carol Or Nor Var agreed to anything agreed to anything

Well, they didn't disagree with Marv, but yes you're right.

Also re Carol agreeing to kill the Avengers, there is something more going on here. I suspect that even if the Avengers die with the Phoenix around there is a good chance of resurrection scenario. Didn't it revivethe deceased Mar-Vell?

I'm also noticing something strange after the Avengers encounter with the Phoenix. We are probably going to learn, (as that plant started to grow in the Point One excerpt), that all those planets the Phoenix destroyed, weren't at all, and just got rejuvenated.

[infernohara]

One thing that struck me right away, was that the Phoenix didn't fry those it breathed fire on. Why is that? It destroyed planets which exploded, but these, "humans" she lets survive. This tells me the Phoenix doesn't want to harm the people of Earth.



.

I call it PIS. Sure the phoenix has varying levels of fire, but to go easy on some regular human thats attacking it is insane. When Wolverine gets blasted, only his healing powers save him and barely at that. For War Machine to get engulfed means he'll have permanent damage.......unless they really are going for the it doesn't want to destroy earth thing. If thats the case they really need to make up their minds on what the force is here to do.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I just don't get the purpose of that dressing down. These people are here to collaborate, and this thing Hank is doing is the opposite to that. But something happens in this that makes Beast seem correct, when Cap B takes the Phoenix pacifier, and tries to use it and he doesn't have the proper power to make it work. Then Beast tells him off for being so idiotic not to realize Beast has all the answers, but Cap B doesn't listen.

That doesn't stack up as being terribly logical, does it?

Is there any defense for Captain Britain? I never found Cap B pompous, so I didn't really understand where Beast was coming from.

Exactly. Brian has only ever been shown as being a pompous idiot in like a dozen issues of early Excalibur. All when he was grieving for the death of his sister, and very much NOT himself. That short period was a step away from how he usually behaves, and he has never returned TO it because it's not how he normally behaves.

It seems though, that Remender is using that odd period as his basis for interpreting the character as a whole, which has seemed both unnatural in this book and in Uncanny X-Force.

That seems a little too contrived on the part of Henry McCoy, to go to such lengths as to rip into Cap B. It seems to me Hank and Cap B have some history, but I don't know what it is.

Largely during the days when Brian was hanging with The X-Men the most Beast was not a member. He was away with the original X-Factor. But the odd thing is that Brian was only ever shown as a trusted and valued friend of The X-Men. There was no antagonism there.

[graffiX]

I enjoyed the first half of this issue.....second half with the Kree stuff, not so much.

[lilyinblue]

You know, it just occurs to me, that the mischaracterisatons of Carol and Noh came after the Phoenix blasted them with fire. Does the Birds breath have some powers to alter individuals?

I wouldn't call it mischaracterization. Neither of them are themselves right now. Something is influencing/possessing/controlling them.

[jackolover]

That doesn't stack up as being terribly logical, does it?





Exactly. Brian has only ever been shown as being a pompous idiot in like a dozen issues of early Excalibur. All when he was grieving for the death of his sister, and very much NOT himself. That short period was a step away from how he usually behaves, and he has never returned TO it because it's not how he normally behaves.

It seems though, that Remender is using that odd period as his basis for interpreting the character as a whole, which has seemed both unnatural in this book and in Uncanny X-Force.





Largely during the days when Brian was hanging with The X-Men the most Beast was not a member. He was away with the original X-Factor. But the odd thing is that Brian was only ever shown as a trusted and valued friend of The X-Men. There was no antagonism there.

I hope Remender has some explanation for all this. Stress related extinction anxiety maybe?

[jackolover]

I wouldn't call it mischaracterization. Neither of them are themselves right now. Something is influencing/possessing/controlling them.

Yeah, maybe. Nothing could stop that bird or alter it's course until the Secret Avengers encountered it. Then the crystal of the Kree distracted it, and it burnt that outpost. If it was that easy, they could have just sent Daredevil. Are we missing something here? This bird does seem like Hope is in control of it somehow. I was anticipating Phoenix to just fly right by the SA, and keep going on to Earth, and nothing like that happened.